seawolf

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Posts by seawolf

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  14

  Camp Xray Latest...Anyone?

  by ISP in

  1. social
  2. current

  not heard a lot on this recently.

  are there still hundreds of people chained, blindfolded etc in open cages still?.

  kinda topical with the issue of treatment of pows being to the fore now.. isp

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  seawolf

  whoops. I posted info for the wrong base.

  oh well if that's going on at the one base it's probably going on at the others, considering the other articles that have been posted.
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  62

  What's Your Favourite War Movie???

  by dottie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well since everyone's mind is on the obvious...thought i'd add a twist to it and hopefully no flame war will come of it .

  what is your fave war movie??

  i have 2: full metal jacket and apocalypse now.

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  seawolf

  Das Boot
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  14

  Camp Xray Latest...Anyone?

  by ISP in

  1. social
  2. current

  not heard a lot on this recently.

  are there still hundreds of people chained, blindfolded etc in open cages still?.

  kinda topical with the issue of treatment of pows being to the fore now.. isp

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  seawolf

  Prisoners released from Bagram say forced to strip naked, deprived of sleep, ordered to stand for hours

  Fri Mar 14, 8:22

  By KATHY GANNON, Associated Press Writer

  PESHAWAR, Pakistan - There was a thin layer of ice on the dirt floor of his cell. His interrogators, American soldiers, ordered him to strip. "Everything," they said. "Take everything off." Then, as he was shivering, naked in his cell, two men threw a bucket of ice cold water on him.

  "I couldn't say anything. I was so frightened. I didn't know what they would do next," Saif-ur Rahman told The Associated Press two weeks after his release from U.S. detention in Afghanistan ( news - web sites).

  Rahman's account and that of another recently freed Afghan gave a rare firsthand look into interrogations of prisoners held by the United States in the war against terrorism. Human rights groups have criticized U.S. interrogation methods as abusive. Two prisoners died in December after being beaten at a prison in Bagram Air Base, the U.S. military headquarters in Afghanistan.

  The U.S. military defended its methods and insisted that they do not constitute torture, specifically challenging the accounts by Rahman and another former prisoner, Abdul Qayyum.

  Access to the sprawling two-story prison compound at Bagram, north of Kabul, is closely guarded. A 10-foot-high external wall and coils of barbed wire on the ground ring the building. Sheet metal and wood slabs cover the windows.

  In separate interviews conducted by AP, two prisoners — Rahman and Qayyum — offered similar accounts of their time at Bagram's detention center. They complained of sleep deprivation, of being forced to stand for long periods of time, of humiliating taunts from women soldiers, screaming abuses at them through closed doors.

  Rahman spoke slowly, explaining with gestures. Sometimes he would stop, look away seemingly embarrassed to talk about his nakedness, about how he was forced to lie spread eagle on the dirt floor while his interrogators placed a chair on either hand and on his feet.

  For 20 straight days Rahman was handcuffed. At meal time his hands were tied, but the constraints more relaxed. Qayyum said he was held in a large hall with around 100 prisoners — 10 people to a cubicle cordoned off from other similar cubicles by sheets of mesh. He was held for two months and five days and throughout that time he was forbidden to talk to his cell mates.

  At Bagram on Friday, U.S. Military Spokesman Roger King denied much of Rahman's and Qayyum's allegations.

  "Some of the stuff they are saying sounds like partial truths, some of it's completely bogus," he said.

  "They were stripped naked probably to prevent them from sneaking weapons into the facility. That's why someone may be stripped," King said. He also dismissed the charge of mistreatment with cold water.

  "We do force people to stand for an extended period of time. ... Disruption of sleep has been reported as an effective way of reducing people's inhibition about talking or their resistance to questioning," King said.

  A "common technique" involves either keeping lights on constantly or waking inmates every 15 minutes to disorient them and keep them wondering about the hour of the day, he said.

  "They are not allowed to speak to one another. If they do, they can plan together or rely on the comfort of one another," King said. "If they're caught speaking out of turn, they can be forced to do things — like stand for a period of time — as payment for speaking out."

  Human rights organizations have criticized the detentions and conditions at Bagram and Guantanamo, Cuba. An Afghan human rights worker, who spoke on condition of anonymity, interviewed more than 20 Afghan former detainees who said they were stripped and ordered to sit and kneel naked in awkward positions for hours while they were questioned.

  Last week, U.S. military coroners ruled the deaths of two prisoners at Bagram — on Dec. 3 and Dec. 10 — as homicides. The men had been beaten and one had a blood clot in his lung. As yet, no charges have been brought.

  Amnesty International called the methods "humiliating and degrading."

  "It is very clear that all of those treatments — prolonged restraints and sleep deprivation that results from leaving the lights on — while it might not always rise to the standard of torture, it certainly is humiliating and degrading," Alistair Hodgett, spokesman for Amnesty International in Washington, told AP in a telephone interview on Friday.

  Hodgett said the U.S. State Department's report on Human Rights last year criticized Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey for similar treatment of prisoners.

  Both Rahman and Qayyum were both taken prisoner in the northeast province in Kunar — Rahman in December, Qayyum in August.

  Qayyum was captured in a widely publicized arrest of Haji Ruhollah Wakil, a leader of small religious party, and 13 others. Wakil is still in Bagram, along with his lieutenant Saber Lal, said Qayyum. Rahman was arrested even though he had been a prominent supporter of U.S. troops in Kunar since the fall of the Taliban in 2001.

  Both were flown out of Kunar by helicopter, their hands tied and eyes covered.

  In Rahman's case, the helicopter first landed at Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan. It was there that he was stripped naked and doused in ice water. His interrogators — two men with two dogs — were American. After 24 hours he was sent to the two-story detention center at Bagram where Qayyum was also held.

  For the first 20 days Rahman was alone in a room on the second floor of the building. On the first floor, Qayyum was held in the larger room, divided by wire mesh into cubicles. Each prisoner was given a red suit to wear, two blankets and a carpet on which to sleep. The lights were always on. Prisoners were allowed to wash once a week for five minutes. The toilet was a bucket.

  Qayyum said interrogations were carried out on the second floor, where prisoners were led hooded and handcuffed.

  At one point Rahman said his interrogators threatened to send him to Guantanamo, Cuba.

  "One of them brought me 50 small stones and said 'count these stones.' When I finished he said, 'We will send you there (Guantanamo) for 50 years.'"

  "I was sad (about being arrested) because I was the enemy of al-Qaida and Taliban. I was not the criminal. I fought the Taliban," Rahman said. After the Taliban's fall, Rahman — along with his brother Malik Zareen, a prominent commander in the U.S.-allied northern alliance — seized control of Kunar for the allies in their war on terror.

  Now he says he is too embarrassed to say he was arrested by the U.S. forces.

  "I tell everyone I was in Kabul to visit Karzai. I don't tell anyone I was in Bagram," he said. "They would laugh at me. At Bagram, Taliban prisoners would shout at me, 'These are your friends. This is what happens to friends of the Americans.'"

  Upon their release, Rahman and Qayyum said their captors told them the same thing: "We are here to help you. The Taliban and al-Qaida are your enemy. They destroyed your country."

  http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030315/ap_wo_en_ge/as_gen_questioned_at_bagram_2
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  58

  The Truth about September 11 ( 9-11 )

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. social
  2. current

  the official version .

  of 9/11 is a hoax

  commentary by john kaminski.

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  seawolf

  Listen, I dont' agree w/ much of what the Government of Israel does.

  A lot of people would consider this statement to be anti-semitic, too. No?

  I think you got a bit too carried away. The word 'jew' wasn't mentioned at all on page one and the word 'Israeli' was mentioned once (twice if you include the quote in your post). If people are blaming the jews for everything from global warming to the teletubbies then that's stupid and the people need to find a new hobby.

  I don't know anything about jirzo or really about what went on. I read some of it but found what he was saying to not make much sense. IIRC I recall wondering if he was a non-native speaker of English? I never got involved in it since it was worthless IMHO

  I've never gone to the other board so no idea what goes on there.

  oh, and I know my history, thanks.
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  58

  The Truth about September 11 ( 9-11 )

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. social
  2. current

  the official version .

  of 9/11 is a hoax

  commentary by john kaminski.

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  seawolf

  More anti-semitic prattle.

  I wondered how long it would be before someone cried anti-semitic.
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  113

  What's The STRANGEST Thing You've Seen At A Kingdom Hall?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw a fight break out on the platform between an elder and a unbelieving husband who accused the elder of f---ing his wife.

  he then threw the lectern on the floor and pushed the elder.

  it was cool.......

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  seawolf

  hehe yeah I wish I would have known what was exciting in the prayer. It might have helped make the 15,000 prayers I heard in my lifetime a bit easier to stand.
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  113

  What's The STRANGEST Thing You've Seen At A Kingdom Hall?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw a fight break out on the platform between an elder and a unbelieving husband who accused the elder of f---ing his wife.

  he then threw the lectern on the floor and pushed the elder.

  it was cool.......

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  seawolf

  At my hall there was this young kid, maybe 9 years old or so. Well, at the beginning of the prayer, I just happened to glance back and saw him grab his dad's privates with BOTH hands and yelled out real loud "What's this? What's this?" His dad smacked his hands away and never even opened his eyes during the prayer.

  I had to sit down for the rest of the prayer and hide my face.
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  73

  Iraq's Tortured Children

  by ThiChi in

  1. social
  2. current

  iraq's tortured children .

  some witnesses had direct experience of child torture .

  by john sweeney .

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  seawolf

  I'm sure he conducts "Koran Studies" in his torture chambers

  Would that be from his "My Book of Koran Studies" with the yellow cover?
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  73

  Iraq's Tortured Children

  by ThiChi in

  1. social
  2. current

  iraq's tortured children .

  some witnesses had direct experience of child torture .

  by john sweeney .

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  seawolf

  On July 25, 1990, eight days before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, a quiet, largely unreported meeting took place between Saddam Hussein and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie at the Presidential Palace in Baghdad, which has since been destroyed by the war. The transcript of this meeting is as follows:

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:

  "I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I have lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your other threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?"

  Saddam Hussein:

  "As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we [the Iraqis] meet [with the Kuwaitis] and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death."

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:

  "What solutions would be acceptable?"

  Saddam Hussein:

  "If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (which, in Saddam's view, includes Kuwait) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?"

  (Pause, then Ambassador Glaspie speaks carefully)

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:

  "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

  (Saddam smiles.)

  THE GREEN LIGHT AND THE LIMOSINE

  At a Washington press conference called the next day, State Department spokesperson Margaret Tutweiler was asked by journalists:

  "Has the United States sent any type of diplomatic message to the Iraqis about putting 30,000 troops on the border with Kuwait? Has there been any type of protest communicated from the United States government?"

  to which she responded:

  "I'm entirely unaware of any such protest."

  On July 31st, two days before the Iraqi invasion, John Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern affairs, testified to Congress that the

  "United States has no commitment to defend Kuwait and the U.S. has no intention of defending Kuwait if it is attacked by Iraq."

  Eight days later, on August 2, 1990, Saddam Hussein's massed troops invaded and occupied Kuwait (ironically, this was done in a method historically similar to the American anexation of Texas). One month later in Baghdad, British journalists obtained the tape and transcript of the Hussein-Glaspie meeting on July 25, 1990. In order to verify this astounding information, they attempted to confront Ms. Glaspie as she was leaving the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.

  Journalist 1:

  "Are the transcripts (holding them up) correct, Madam Ambassador?"

  (Ambassador Glaspie does not respond)

  Journalist 2:

  "You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait), but you didn't warn him not to. You didn't tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the oppose - that America was not associated with Kuwait."

  Journalist 1:

  "You encouraged this aggression - his invasion. What were you thinking?"

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:

  "Obviously, I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take ALL of Kuwait."

  Journalist 1:

  "You thought he was just going to take SOME of it? But how COULD YOU?! Saddam told you that, if negotiations failed, he would give up his Iran (Shatt al Arab Waterway) goal for the "WHOLE of Iraq, in the shape we wish it to be." You KNOW that includes Kuwait, which the Iraqis have always viewed as an historic part of their country!"

  (Ambassador Glaspie says nothing, pushing past the two journalists to leave)

  "America green-lighted the invasion. At a minimum, you admit signalling Saddam that some aggression was okay - that the U.S. would not oppose a grab of the al-Rumalya oil field, the disputed border strip and the Gulf Islands (including Bubiyan) - territories claimed by Iraq?"

  (Again, Ambassador Glaspie says nothing as a limousine door closes behind her and the car drives off.)
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  88

  Bush just wants the oil!!!

  by dubla in

  1. social
  2. current

  i posted this on another thread, but i thought a new thread might help get the ball rolling: .

  i have a simple question for all those that believe this war is solely about oil: .

  what exactly do you believe bush is going to do with the oil fields after the war?.

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  seawolf

  The PNAC goes along with my last post on Israel. The PNAC has been discussed for the past year+ on other boards.

  Anyway, there was a Nightline special on the PNAC a couple of weeks ago:

  And in a report just before the 2000 election that would bring Bush to power, the group predicted that the shift would come about slowly, unless there were "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor."

  That event came on Sept. 11, 2001. By that time, Cheney was vice president, Rumsfeld was secretary of defense, and Wolfowitz his deputy at the Pentagon.

  They got their "Pearl Harbor."

  Here's details on the show http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/pnac_030310.html

  Transcript is here http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ThePlan.htm