the name `jehovah' appears on a liverpool creamware jug with a transfer-print of spencer percival assassination on 1 side and john wesley on the other side.
(methodist recorder,issue 7562,page 8.. i also understand that the tetragramm was assoiceted with baal.
in view of the assoication with the death of a man and a pagan god,is jehovah an appropriate name 2 use.
Ok here I am at work today, and hereis the promised links
I had one other, but it must have been at home and I lost it.
The other one was mostly a listing of the pantheon that the Canaanites worshipped and YHWH was one of them.
Edited by - seedy3 on 1 December 2002 22:7:33
the name `jehovah' appears on a liverpool creamware jug with a transfer-print of spencer percival assassination on 1 side and john wesley on the other side.
(methodist recorder,issue 7562,page 8.. i also understand that the tetragramm was assoiceted with baal.
in view of the assoication with the death of a man and a pagan god,is jehovah an appropriate name 2 use.
" I also understand that the Tetragramm was assoiceted with Baal"
Badboy is quite correct, The Tetagramaton has been found in the Ugarate in Canaan and was one of the lesser sons of their almighty God El. I do not have the link to a research paper that was done on it here at home (I forgot to back up all of my bookmarks when I formatted my PC last week), but I do have it at work and will post that and one other that covers this subject about YHWH coming from a pagan belief.
Seedy
recently i was reading about the historicy of jesus christ and i found some documents quite perturbant, one of them is located in this url: http://www.courses.drew.edu/sp2000/bibst189.001/jesusmys.html .
i found especially perturbant the parallels in the conclusion between jesus christ and osiris-dionysus.
of course any kind of material could the published in the internet, but, are these parallels thrue ?
I went and read the site mentioned above http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
I find it facinating that what he uses to prove the resurection was not any real evidence, but just repeats the christian tradition as an answer to each arguement. I suppose I could give a short response in this way:
If there was no Jesus, then there was no grave, therefore there was no stone, and if there was no stone there was no Roman guard that went AWOL, then as well there could not have been a resurection since there was no Jesus to begin with.
He mentions that the Gospels were in wide circulation during the life times of the deciples, well that is not fully true and hard to beleive. Although one of them may have been written during their lifetime, that being Mark, it was written in Greek and the language of the area was actually Aramaic, although Greek was widely spoken, I highly doubt it was widely read, as even most people of the day didn't even read Aramaic.
LOL, I just got to the bottom of the page, Hmmm I must have skipped the intro, I see Josh McDowell wrote this article. I fnd his reasoning so ludicris at times he is almost comical. I have not read his latest book, but have heard of it. his first book was a sham and so far off base. here is a link to a review and rebuttal to his earlier book. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/chap5.html
You may find it an interesting read.
Seedy
i was speaking with a friend of mine (ex-jw) and his brother was just babtised in the last few years.
wht he told was sort of strange.
when he was babtised his brother was given a wedding ring type band at his babtisem, then i came to find out that another person i know had been also given one when she got dunked.
I was speaking with a friend of mine (Ex-JW) and his brother was just babtised in the last few years. Wht he told was sort of strange. When he was babtised his brother was given a wedding ring type band at his babtisem, then I came to find out that another person I know had been also given one when she got dunked. Is this a common practise now days or something?? I was shoved under the surface of the cleansing water of imersion back in the late 60''s and I never heard of such a thing, has anyone else hard of this?
Seedy
national geographic october 2002 p6.. `princess idut died about 2330bc.. father;teti.
grandfather;unas.
how does the noachian fit in?
Badboy,
In the first series you mentioned the egyptions and how could the dynasty not have been interupted,
Egypt;5 DYNASTY1ST LAGASH dynasty;2500-2350
Y is there no break in the 5TH dynasty if a WORLD-WIDE Flood(tm) took place)?
There is stiil yet another few cultures that seem a mystery when figuring a flood in this time period.
In 1975, as the dig progressed down to Early Bronze Age levels, a remarkable find was made in the form of nearly 20,000 clay tablets which constituted the royal archives of the city. These tablets date back to the middle of the 3rd millenium BC, almost 4,500 years ago.
- John Fulton, "A New Chronology - Synopsis of David Rohl's book 'A Test of Time'""The documents "reveal the existence of a mighty Canaanite empire in Syria that also embraced Palestine around 2400 BC which no one had suspected before; its capital was at Tell Mardikh - an ancient, all-but-forgotten city called Ebla."
- Magnus Magnusson, BC - The Archaeology of the Bible Lands"The city was a large one of 260,000 inhabitants; it traded widely over the known world at that time. A flourishing civilisation existed with many skilled craftsmen in metals, textiles, ceramics, and woodwork. It existed 1,000 years before David and Solomon and was destroyed by the Akkadians in around 1600 BC.
- John Fulton, "A New Chronology - Synopsis of David Rohl's book 'A Test of Time'"
So now if the flood happened in 2370bce, how could there be a city of 260k that fast?
Then there are the Sumerians they are considered even older and yet not having disappeared until after the flood age.
Just a thought
Seedy
recently i was reading about the historicy of jesus christ and i found some documents quite perturbant, one of them is located in this url: http://www.courses.drew.edu/sp2000/bibst189.001/jesusmys.html .
i found especially perturbant the parallels in the conclusion between jesus christ and osiris-dionysus.
of course any kind of material could the published in the internet, but, are these parallels thrue ?
Ginosko,
I have read of all these supposed evidences for Jesus and done a fair amount of research on them. It is interesting to note that none of the people that are quoted lived in that time so first off had to rely on hearsay to pass on their writngs. The mentions of Jesus in the annals of Joshephes are widely viewed as a fraud, even some of the Cahtolic scholars who's for-runners were the ones that found it. It is thought, by many, that Eusebius, the church historian, had forged that passage about Jesus.
The Cathlic Enclyclopedia says this about the passage:
Those who regard the passage as spurious
First, there are those who consider the whole passage as spurious. The principal reasons for this view appear to be the following:
- Josephus could not represent Jesus Christ as a simple moralist, and on the other hand he could not emphasize the Messianic prophecies and expectations without offending the Roman susceptibilities;
- the above cited passage from Josephus is said to be unknown to Origen and the earlier patristic writers;
- its very place in the Josephan text is uncertain, since Eusebius (Hist. Eccl., II, vi) must have found it before the notices concerning Pilate, while it now stands after them.
In the book Forgery in Christianity by Joseph Wheless, Esq, he writes:
Mangasarian. Wheless: "The fact is, that with the exception of this one incongruous forged passage, section 3, the wonder-mongering Josephus makes not the slightest mention of his wonder-working fellow-countryman, Jesus the Christ - though some score of other Joshuas, or Jesuses, are recorded by him, nor does he mention any of his transcendent wonders."
Now on to the other "Historical writings of Pliny and Tacitus.
Again neither of these two lived during the time of Jesus, So they could not have been eye wittnesses to Jesus or even hear directly from someone that had been..
Pliny: First off in his letter to Trajan he did not mention anything about Jesus, no record of what happened to Jesus or his legend, all he really mentions is Christians and their devotion.
Tacitus: There is no evidence as to where Tacitus got his information, there is a lot of specualtion on it but nothing substatual. The thought are he heard it from Pliny or perhaps from what christians had said in questioning by autorities. There are actually many different specualtions. But needless to say this is not a reliable proof.
There is also the point that Tacitus does not always use reliable sources for his writings this is mentioned by a few scholars as this
Tacitus occasionally reported stories which were false historically but were true in a literary sense or a moral sense.
R. Melner, Michael Grant, K. Wessley.
Besides, in the context of the passage, it is unclear that Tacitus (or anyone else for that matter) would have even thought to investigate whether "Christus" actually existed, especially given that Tacitus called Christianity a "pernicious superstition."
Suetonius: Again this is not a proof of Jesus, it ony possibly mentions the movement and actually is the word Crestus and Christus.
The Talmud
First off lets get one thing correct, the Tol'Doth Yeshu is not a part of the Talmud. It was not composed until around the 10th century so therefore cannot be of any historical value
So now we fall back on, there is no historical evidence of a historical Jesus, Now there may have been one, there were many people named Y'shuah in jerusalem as it was a common name. But if he did exist, as he is portraied, why was he never mentioned by Philo, or Justin of Alexanderia (Justin was from Jesus home town, they were hommies, they could have even grown up together), as well as about 40 other historians that lived during that time period. How is it that there could have been masses assembled to hear his teachings, and yet it never reached Philo, even though he was right there. How is it, that strange things happend at Jesus death like the impossible eclipse (it is impossible to have an eclipse on the full moon) now that would have been big news, or the earthquake, where many were recorded yet not this one. Then again how about Josephes, he hated Herod and made a point to show all of his dasterdly deeds, yet the slaughter of an entire villages children wasn't ever recorded, as well as none of the other writers did.
Just things to ponder
Seedy
looking for anyone from the st. cloud congregations (i was in the north one)...or surrounding areas.
oh heck, anyone from minnesota is fine!
Hi Yourschelbe,
You said;
Minnesota is wonderful, the gorgeous pine trees freshen the air,
Hmmmm Wait till fall and drive through southern MN when the're out spreading the hog manure, LOL
But honestly I loved MN when I was there. I'll be coming for a visit in the summer (its too cold any other time of year) I'm hoping we can arrange an apostofest during that time.
Seedy
who do you believe jesus christ is?.
i will post my beliefs on this thread soon.. this is probably the most important question there is to ask anyone.. mark 8:27: and jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of caesarea philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying to them, who do men say that i am?
Hi Undef'd
Umm I was wondering you said this, along with another quote:
The Prophet as prophesied by Moses.Very True. The Bible says this:
Matthew 21:11: The multitudes said, "This is the Prophet, Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee."
Luke 7:16: Fear took hold of all, and they glorified God, saying, "A Great Prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!"
Now I'm not saying that Moses never said that, but Moses didn't write Matthew or Luke. In fact those two books were not written until about 1300 years or so after Moses. So I am interested in where Moses said it, or rather wrote it, as that statement is out of context.
Thx
Seedy
bill bowen wrote about ray franz in.
* the thread found by clicking here.
his silence regarding abuse causes me to question his ability to stand for what is morally and ethically right.. .
Did I miss something?? The only reason I looked at this post was to see what was CENSORED. I'm actually getting sick of reading the back and forth BS between BB and RF.
Seedy
recently i was reading about the historicy of jesus christ and i found some documents quite perturbant, one of them is located in this url: http://www.courses.drew.edu/sp2000/bibst189.001/jesusmys.html .
i found especially perturbant the parallels in the conclusion between jesus christ and osiris-dionysus.
of course any kind of material could the published in the internet, but, are these parallels thrue ?
a site with quite a few of the early writings is here:
http://www.biblefacts.org/ecf/index.htm
It is not quite complete as I see on the page they are suppose to be adding more eventually
Seedy
