Posts by seedy3

50

The Book of Daniel

by SwedishChef in

the following was written by professor johseph d. wilson, d. d., and is about the prophecies and criticism of the book of daniel.

it was published in the four volume book series called "the fundamentals.".

modern objections to the book of daniel were started by german scholars who were prejudiced against the supernatural.

So far I have only quoted from bible scolars, I mean ones who support the bible, no critics yet, I will soon, but all the quotes I have used so far have been Christian Theologians not critics. So don't go there, I really do not believe you have read any of the quotes I have made, and who they are from. You quoted one dead person and expect everyone to accept it, I quoted one dead, one old (although this guy may have kicked the bucket by now too) and one living.

The idea of Daniel being a forged book is not unusual for the bible at all, many book are forged or psudopigraphically written, there is much evidence to that.

onacruse is quite correct, the way they date many writings is by linguistics, and Daniel is dated to around the 3rd century BC (BCE if your a JW) and not into the 5th century BC. The fact that it was not part of the LXX in the 2nd century is another evidence that it was not part of the Hebrew writings in that day, WHY? Because it was not part of their holy writings then. It was added later on. WHY? Because it was FORGED or psudopigraphically written.

You so far have not shown why there is any reason to not think it was, you have only stated I have no faith in the bible and that is quite true, it is a forged book much of it written by zelious christians, like Irenious, and Papyous to control the masses (refering to the NT) much of the OT is the same.

I will make a few more quotes about this tomorrow when I have my references (they are all at work).

Seedy

6

Scaring off the Dubs

by stichione in

jw
friends

i was in an apartment building today and saw a sign on a door:.

no peddlars.

no jehovah's witnesses.

seedy3

I like to play with them, so I wouldn't do any of that. But I also like to play with fanitical christians too, I think they really are all one in the same.

Seedy

50

The Book of Daniel

by SwedishChef in

the following was written by professor johseph d. wilson, d. d., and is about the prophecies and criticism of the book of daniel.

it was published in the four volume book series called "the fundamentals.".

modern objections to the book of daniel were started by german scholars who were prejudiced against the supernatural.

seedy3

Heathen,

Your reference to Ez 14:20, according to the NIV study bible, is strongly thought in many circles to reference the Daniel of the Ugarit writings, and not the prophet Daniel of Hebrew writings, and it gives it's reason as follows, I had quoted it above but will again.

a) "Danel" in Ezekiel 14:14,20 (associated here with patriarch Noah) is not considered referring to Daniel according to many scholars but to a honored Danel featured in Ugaritic literature, Ras Shamra poems of the fourteenth century B.C.E. Furthermore, it would have been too early for Ezekiel to mention a contemporary still in his early years of adulthood.

Seedy

50

The Book of Daniel

by SwedishChef in

the following was written by professor johseph d. wilson, d. d., and is about the prophecies and criticism of the book of daniel.

it was published in the four volume book series called "the fundamentals.".

modern objections to the book of daniel were started by german scholars who were prejudiced against the supernatural.

seedy3

Swedishchef,

Your claim that Daniel is bogus goes unsupported. This article refutes many of the false claims against it.
Face it, Daniel was extremely accurate in his predictions and thats the only reason why you don't believe it.

Actually I used three scolarly Quotes above to show the evidence that it was bogus, and not prophetical, and those are not the only ones if you want others I can get them. Also while I quoted 3 sources and different religious scholars you only used one (and mine were a lot shorter then yours).

I don't beleive it becasue it is all came true, I don't beleive it becasue there is no PROOF that it is what it says and infact has been shown not to be by historical data.

Oh yeah and another one that is EXTREAMLY accurate was Egar Casey, actually more so then Nastrodomus, the problem with Nostrodomus was he wrote in riddles and a very confusing form of writing, I know he did that because of the Church of the day, and if they caught him he would have been burned at the stake for herisy and witchcraft.

Seedy

50

The Book of Daniel

by SwedishChef in

the following was written by professor johseph d. wilson, d. d., and is about the prophecies and criticism of the book of daniel.

it was published in the four volume book series called "the fundamentals.".

modern objections to the book of daniel were started by german scholars who were prejudiced against the supernatural.

seedy3

Well I did get farther then Stinkypantz but I couldn't read the entire thing,my eyes started going crossed, any how. The book of Daniel is bogus, it is not prophecy it was history written to look like prophecy.

"Porphyry [3rd century Neoplatonist philosopher] wrote his 20th book against the prophecy of Daniel, denying that it was written by the individual to whom it is ascribed in its title, but rather by some person living in Judea at the time of Antiochus Epiphanes; he further alleged that Daniel did not prophesy the future so much as he related the past, and lastly whatever he spoke of up until the time of Antiochus contained genuine history, whereas anything he may have conjectured beyond that point was false inasmuch as he would have not foreknown the future."
(St. Jerome, Commentary on Daniel, 407 C.E.)
"The book ['Daniel'] must therefore have been written during the persecution under Antiochus Epiphanes and before his death, even before the success of the Maccabaean [Hasmonean] revolt; that is to say between 167 and 164."
(The New Jerusalem Bible, Introduction to Daniel)

The O.T. apocryphal book 'Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach', written in Hebrew around 200-180, comments on the (Jewish) "famous men" in chapters 44-51: Joseph (the counterpart of Daniel at the Pharaoh's court) and the major prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel) are mentioned, but not Daniel. Furthermore, the book of Daniel was not originally included in 'the prophets' writings, implying a late composition.
Notes:
a) "Danel" in Ezekiel 14:14,20 (associated here with patriarch Noah) is not considered referring to Daniel according to many scholars but to a honored Danel featured in Ugaritic literature, Ras Shamra poems of the fourteenth century B.C.E. Furthermore, it would have been too early for Ezekiel to mention a contemporary still in his early years of adulthood.
b) There is no proof that the book of Daniel was included in the original Septuagint (LXX):
"Behind the legends lies the probability that at least the Torah (the five books of Moses) was translated into Greek c. 250 B.C. for the use of the Greek speaking Jews of Alexandria.
The rest of the O.T. and some noncanonical books were also included in the LXX before the dawning of the Christian era, through it is difficult to be certain when."
(The NIV Study Bible)

Most of the OT is no where near as old as they (the Clergy) would like you to think it is.

Seedy

18

God's Outrageous Claims

by Yizuman in

there's a very good book for atheists to read that have a very hard time with the concept of god.. the book is written by a former atheist who was like many of you a sceptic until he started doing personal research to find evidence of god and the biblical history and claims.

this is an extrememely good read if you want to find out from a former atheist who found evidence that showed proof that god is real and the biblical evidence that is found to back up the bible.. .

click here to view the book.. yizuman.

seedy3

rebel asked gumby

Gumby,
Where can I find something to read about the pagan beliefs that the Bible writers adapted? I would be very interested in this. Does anyone else have any info? It may have been posted before and I missed it.

I have a website that is has a lot of interesting info on it about the origins of the Hebrew/Christian beliefs and stories mentioned in the bible. Here are some of the more pertenant links to this subject.

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/thera.html this has quite a few links on it dealing with the eruption of the volcano Thera and it's effect on soceity and religion in that day

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/egypt.html this has many interesting Egyption and Hebrew writings that seem to be of one source, or in the least extreamy simular

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/canaan.html this page discusses the beginings of civilation in the canaan area and how the Hebrews came into play there and the results (a few pertinant links here as well.

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/influence.html Sumerian influence on the Egyption and eventually the Hebrew beleifs

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/hapiru.html The actual study of the Hebrews in Egypt and if they were ever really there.

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/watchers.html an interesting research on the "Sons of God" and the Sumerian beleifs in the Watchers and the Nephillam (quite a few links at the bottom of the page that tie to this subject)

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/science/flood.html some of the origins of the flood and its scientific, or lack there of, evidence.

I hope someof this helps you, there are many other pages, some of which you will be able to access through thses links

Seedy

38

Were you born into the jw faith?

by nakedmvistar in

jw
friends

how many of you on this forum were born into the jw faith?

do you think this put you at a disadvantage when leaving the org.

do you think that someone who becomes a witness later in life would have an easier time adjusting back to a "normal" life?

seedy3

Hello folks,

I was born, raised, and married as a JW, but I didn't find it as difficult to leave as many of the stories I have heard here. I pretty much had a whole new set of friends and such when I had made my move to leave and had been inactive for about 4 years before they caught up to me and DF'd me. Heck I wasn't even living in the same state as the congregation that DF'd me. All but one of my siblings had left the Borg before I had, and so I didn't have the family problems many have. My parents were still active right till the day they passed, but they never shunned me, so I actually had it easy. Even if my parents would have shunned me it would not have made it more difficult, I for the most part was ticked off at my parents anyway for interfearing with my raising my daughter and getting inbetween my ex and myself, so I had not talked to them in about 2 years. I guess I was the one doing the shunning.

Seedy

53

Bible is God's word?

by Moxy in

id like to hear some *reasoned* explanations for why you believe the bible is gods word.

ive been so fascinated by the study of *real* biblical scholarship since i began educating myself, i now find it incredulous that i used to take the bible as divine, along with all jws and tons of christians, including a good number here.

so id like to entertain your very best lines of evidence that this is the real deal.. mox

seedy3

onacruse said:

"All Scripture is God-breathed" (2 Tim 3:16) (NIV and following)
"For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." (2 Pet 1:21)
Unless I am mistaken, these are the 2 primary Scriptures used to assert the inspiration, the divine inspiration, of the Bible, the entire Bible.
Barnes makes a telling admission on 2 Tim 3:16--
If now it can be proved that Paul himself was an inspired man, this settles the question as to the inspiration of the Old Testament.

Now, are you saying that because it says it's inspired that it is?? I apologize if I am miss reading that, but I find it hard to accept, just because it says so. There are many writings that say they are inspired, the Quaran, the Book of Morman just to name 2. I am sure unless you are of Islam or Morman you do not beleive they are, so how can you argue with them, the books say they are, same reasoning.

Now if you really look and understand what the mythological Peter is saying here, you will notice he is making an opnion to Timothy, his faithful feelings, and not about the NT either, because the only scripture that existed in the time of this Peter, was the OT, the NT did not come into existance until sometime in the 4th century and was not complete until sometime in the 6th, so he could not have been writing about anything included in the NT. I mean how could Peter who was suppose to have died in the Mid 1st century have said that the book of Revelation was inspired, as it was not even written prior to the death of Peter? (written circa 90ad) Even the Gospels have their suspicions of being written long after the 12 had passed on, yet they are attributed to a some of them. The only writings that seem to be able to trace directly are some of the books (letters) written by Paul, the rest are written psudopigraphically. ( I hope I spelled that right)

There is no solid outside evidence that ANY of the Bible is in anyway inspired. With all the failed prophecies, the screwy science, the the conflicting numbers, plus the conflicting history. It surely cannot be an inspired book, because God, if there is one, is a perfect God and would not accept such an imperfect work to have his name put on it.

Seedy

53

Bible is God's word?

by Moxy in

id like to hear some *reasoned* explanations for why you believe the bible is gods word.

ive been so fascinated by the study of *real* biblical scholarship since i began educating myself, i now find it incredulous that i used to take the bible as divine, along with all jws and tons of christians, including a good number here.

so id like to entertain your very best lines of evidence that this is the real deal.. mox

seedy3

Gumby,

It is interesting you bring up the Ugarate, The God YHWH was a very minor god to the Canaanites, and not the all powerful one that the Hebrews have identified him with, he was actually a brother to Baal, son of El the almighty. But during some time after the 12th century BC/BCE the hebrews looked for a god to guide them through the battles and waring in the land of Canaan and fell upon this YHWH. He was extensively worshipped in the mountains of the area by independent tribes that are suspected to have joined forces to become what is now the Hebrews.Oh he also was suppose to be the God of thunder, lightening and fire, so therefore his usual speaking in thunder and being seen in a fire and such, mentioned throughout the bible.

An ineresting note, is that Moses (if he really ever existed as he is shown in the bible) was suppose to have had the name revealed to him by God himself, yet this name had been used for 100's of years prior to the nomadic hebrews arriveing on the scene.

It is even suspect thatt he Hebrews may not have ever been in Egypt in any large numbers as the bible trie to say, but it is the story of the Hykos people that ruled egypt during about 15-13 century BC that actually had the exidos and that the Hebrew (Mountain peoples) had been allies with them during this period, those that were in Egypt when the Egyptions expelled the Hykos may have been subject to slavery and such, but not in the large numbers mentioned in the bible. I thnk and from what I have researched, the story of the Exidos may have been a way to try and Glorify the expulsion of the Hykos and incorperate into the stories for the hebrew legends.

Seedy

53

Bible is God's word?

by Moxy in

id like to hear some *reasoned* explanations for why you believe the bible is gods word.

ive been so fascinated by the study of *real* biblical scholarship since i began educating myself, i now find it incredulous that i used to take the bible as divine, along with all jws and tons of christians, including a good number here.

so id like to entertain your very best lines of evidence that this is the real deal.. mox

seedy3

Start by asking yourself about the origin's of languages. Only the Bible, God's word tells you how it came about.

Funny how that story of the Tower of Babel is said to be the begining of languages. But if you read earlier there were already diffferent languages throughout the world, PRIOR to the tower story. It says "Each one according to his Tounge" Now I read that as saying that the different tribes had different languages.

Frankly I think the whole flood story is a bunch of BS anyway. You think about it How was there a massive Kindom in Sumer, Egypt and so forth only 4 Generations after the flood. Impossable, it just does not fit the story correctly, the math does not add up. So too the tower story makes no sence, as much of the other stuff in the bible.

rebel asked

Can I just ask those that don't believe the Bible to be God's word, do you believe in God?

I do not beleive in God. On the Question of multiple mates, that is a jeudeo christian rule. Incest was not just Lot. Abraham married his sister, and many others did the simular

Seedy.