been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.
in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.
now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?
another site that has a very extensive study on the historical Jesus is this one:
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/jesusx.html
It has a pro-con approch, and is not the opnion of the websites author but is a collection of many scholars, historians, archeologists, and anthropologists, I'm not sure if the link will work, becasue it is a pay sight. If it does not, let me know and I will psot some of the info here.
Seedy
been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.
in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.
now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?
Hey Kenneson:
Actually there are many records that the Christians try to use to prove that Jesus existed, the faulter of most of them except for Josephus, and Tacitus, is that they only mention the Christian movement, not the man.
Tacitus, is very suspect as to the references he used to write the statment that he wrote.
Josephus, has 2 statments refering to Jesus, one of them is plainly not even his writing, the other is again more a reference to the movement and not a confirmation of Jesus' existance.
I really recomend this sight for the skeptical and the beleiver:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/chap5.html
Seedy
...some ancient wisdom this way comes?
pulling over from another thread.... i'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the jws.
or, perhaps, before joining.. i'm curious what experiences have been had.
Actually Abaddon, you will find pagans much more scientific then the judeo/christian beliefs.
...some ancient wisdom this way comes?
pulling over from another thread.... i'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the jws.
or, perhaps, before joining.. i'm curious what experiences have been had.
The only time I do rituals any more is when I am in a group, which is seldom now. I find rituals for myself are unnesessary, it is more the concentration of thought and the ability to channel them. I have transfered, an energy over long distances, usually of protection. I had one lady asking me to help her get her Boss to recognize her abilites in her job, she told me the next day she got a promotion.
Another time I had a friend of mine (she was Chamorro living in North Corolina) that was having a problem that a Sirujana was trying to make her come home and was causing all kinds of havok around her house, she could not stop it. I told her how to do it with a ritual, it still had no effect. So I took it in hand myself and cast a spell (just an intense thought) to limit this sirujana's energies twords this friend of mine. It stopped. A week later I released this limit on the sirujana (I did not tell my friend that I did this), this person messaged me the next day and told me the strange things started all over again. So I reimposed the energy and set it differently, she has not had a problem since, that was 1 1/2 years ago.
I often cast a spell for improved thoughts, well being and such, they seem very effective.
My ex-wife had some problems with the Taotaomunas near her house, he he he, I was the first one she turned to for help. I was able to help and stop the problems, but they did start again. I always try to get people to try and resolve their own spiritual problems, but I find many people have troubles doing this. Their thoughts are not directed in a concentrated correctly. Wiccan's call it a cone of energy/power, I call it a tight concentration of energy.
I find christians do not seem to comprehend the thought energy processes, but a pagan fully understands the prayer process, as in actuallity they are identical the only difference is we do not direct the thoughts to a god (for the most part) we channel our thoughts on our own. Both a prayer and a spell is identical, it is only a thought.
Ok I'm rambling now LOL
Seedy
...some ancient wisdom this way comes?
pulling over from another thread.... i'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the jws.
or, perhaps, before joining.. i'm curious what experiences have been had.
Hi gsx1138,
I don't always tell everyone I'm pagan, but I am open about it. I have never told any of my family outside of my wife and kids. I do this only so as not to put my mother in her grave, I think she would have a heart attack if she found out, But most anyone else that knows me knows I am a pagan.
As far as checking a profile, look under the name in a post and you see what looks like a little post card, click on that and it will bring up a smaller box with a persons profile.
Seedy
...some ancient wisdom this way comes?
pulling over from another thread.... i'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the jws.
or, perhaps, before joining.. i'm curious what experiences have been had.
Most receintly My wife had a friend that passed away we were going through her things looking for pictures for the rosery and funeral, plus the news paper for the obituary, we found some but not what we were wanting, exept for this one that was really only a thumbnail print of a bunch pictures we needed the negative to have it printed. I had been feeling a presence almost since she had passed (I seldom have seen spirits, I feel them more then see them) as we were sitting there going through the negatives we had found, I got a thought in my head that said the negative was still in the house in a cabinet that high up. Now mind you we had already searched all the cabinets and closets, but to no avail. As I walked back over to her house, I opened the door stepped inside and imeditally was given a message to look in that cabinet on the second shelf, there it was, the negatives we had been searching for, BUT we had already searched this cabinet. I still feel her presence at times, she was always a pest in real life I don't mean that bad, but I kinda get a kick out of her in the after life now as well cause she still pesters me and I was never really her friend she was my wifes close friend.
Another expierence, I was at BBQ one night with some friends, I thnk it was a christening for a relitive of one of my friends, I went to the jungle to drain some of the beer and all of a sudden an old looking native man came out of no where, he looked pale almost transparent, he did not speak with words, but I could sence him, he instructed me to take a bunch of seed pods from a tree, and to keep them as a gift. I have no idea why he did, but I feel it was a way of saying that the Taotaomunas (the ancient spirits on Guam, pronounced tao-tao-moon-ah) accepted me as a friend. I live in a area of the island, that has many spirits, people that know I deal with them have often come to me for help when they are being bothered by them, as I said earlier there are some that can get troublesome if you disrespect them and the Taotaomunas are very protective of their areas and objects that they feel are theirs, they will teach you a lesson, so to speak. Often you have ot try to figure wout what you did, return to that place, and then perform some sort of apology to them, most often they will accept it.
The locals here have their own "Witchdoctors" that are called Sirujanas (pronounced ser-u-ha-nah), they often also deal with the local spirits the same as I do, but seem to have a more superstious approch to them, almost fear them. I give them respect but do not fear them.
My older son comunicates with the Taotaomunas quite often and sees them as well. he also has no fear of them, but always shows them respect. They seem to have adopted him, in a way, as a friend. I have known them to wake him up in the middle of the night to show him a problem, like someone walking through yard and such.
I guess if that is what you were looking for Xander, that is a couple of them.
Seedy
...some ancient wisdom this way comes?
pulling over from another thread.... i'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the jws.
or, perhaps, before joining.. i'm curious what experiences have been had.
And Oh FireDragon:
if there are witches among us, they won't tell you. It isn't something they talk about.I know many witches, some are in what is refered to as the broom closet, but most I know are very open in their beliefs. They will and do talk about it, I do, they just do not force it down someones throat, like most xtains will, they do not condem you or tell you that you will be condemed for not believing as they do, like a christain does. Most I know even wear a penticle in the open to show their path, I wear one, but my wife will not let me wear it openly but I often do anyway.
Seedy
...some ancient wisdom this way comes?
pulling over from another thread.... i'm curious how many have dabbled in witchcraft/spiritism after leaving the jws.
or, perhaps, before joining.. i'm curious what experiences have been had.
I practice Witchcraft and have had many experiences with spirits. I am not Wiccan, I am actually an agnostic, but beleive that there is a universal energy that we all can tap into, in one way or another. I have yet to find a "Dangerous" spirit, although I have run into some that are troublesome, and others that demand their privicy and for you to respect their "homes" so to speak, if you do not respect their privicy they can cause you trouble in many ways. I do not buy the Amityville horror stuff in any way, I think the whole thing was made up, Demons do not exist, they as well are figments of someones imagination. Possesions............Give me a break, these people that feel they are possesed need to see a psyc doctor and get some medication. I have met a person that was "possesed" he seemed more like he needed a dose Haladol, and a little valium to boot.
But if you want to beleive in Demons and possesions, hey no skin off my nose.
Seedy
been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.
in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.
now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?
I looked at this link that Valis posted http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html
The only provable historian to have written these things that mention Jesus, "the Christ" is that of Josephus. Although there are 2 references to him in his writings, only one is thought to have been done by him, that being the first bold in the following quote from the websight:
Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, a member of a priestly family and who became a Pharisee at the age of 19, became the court historian for Emperor Vespasian. In the Antiquities, he wrote about many persons and events of first century Palestine. He makes two references to Jesus. The first reference is believed associated with the Apostle James. "...he brother of Jesus, who was called Christ." He also wrote, "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." These historical writings predated the Old Testament. Josephus died in 97 A.D.There is an interesting rebutal to this ideal, that Josephus was confirming the existance of Jesus and can be found at
Jeff Lowder goes through all the arguements presented for each reference presented on the previous websight and presents an interesting counter to them.
Seedy
poor little dubbies.
theyre so optimistic.
if only the current gb would just die off, everything will get better, they think.
............cooked scripture to justify his living like a King in his own private castle.......
I think he did the cooking in Aluminum pans, as we all know that spoils the food according to the Honest, Humble, God Inspired, publication, the Watchtower.
Seedy
