now call me stupid (but not to my face), but i did not realize that if one types in, say, "patio34" on a search engine, my threads come up.
i bring this up because i did start a thread about a person and that person could, if they suspected it, find it on the huge web!!
they could realize this because my e-mail name is the same as my name here.
LMAO,
I did a search on my user name, I didn't get much but all except for one webpage was about or by me. Funny it even gave me registeration on the SETI website. otheriwse it was mostly this website and the "Other" JW board...............INTERESTING!!!!
Seedy
i was just in a discussion with a jw who was talking about being born again.
now i know that jw's beleive that only the annointed are born again but when are they born again?
also is there any watchtower references to that?
Thanks NeonMadMan
That was the information I was looking for, I guess I had a misunderstanding of the WT view of being "Born Again". I dunno where I got the idea that the WTS believed they were born again after death.
Thanks again,
Seedy
Umm Guest........ that is debatable, according to what I have read inthe gnostics and other places he may have had a wife, her name was Mary.
Seedy
it seems that it's very difficult to convince the average witness that their beliefs are incorrect.nearly all will not admit or simply cannot see the error of their ways.how would you help a jehovah's witness see the light?
Utopian_Raindrops,
You so often hear about clults like the Jim Jones cult, the Wako incendent, a few others that have a mass suicide that hits the news, But what about the JW's? In the receient past I know many many JW's have fallen victum to this cult, with their ban on blood, transplants and vaccines, many have died being faithful to "God". this is not counting the many that have commited individual suicide as you have mentioned, and I find it terrible. It's like travel, you hear about the massive plane crashes, the train crashes that kill a few hundred people at the most in one incident, yet Cars kill more people every year then all of those combined, and yet it seldom hits the news. The JW's kill one at a time, like the cars, the Jim Jones's of the world do it in mass settings, so the world knows not of the JW's murders and sucides, they just know of the masses.
They are a very discusting organisation, I only hope that some day they (the r/f) will start thinking for themselves.
Seedy
i was just in a discussion with a jw who was talking about being born again.
now i know that jw's beleive that only the annointed are born again but when are they born again?
also is there any watchtower references to that?
I was just in a discussion with a JW who was talking about being born again. Now I know that JW's beleive that only the annointed are born again but when are they born again? Also is there any Watchtower references to that? If so where?
The way I undrstand it, for the annointed to be born again they have to die and be born again into the spirtit realm of heaven. This guy is telling me no it is when they are accepted as annointed. any comments with references??
Seedy
this primarily goes out to other agnostics and athiests.
this week i got into two interesting conversations that i will admit that i was ill prepared for.
one was with a jw friend of mine who wanted to know why i thought jw's were wrong.
hooberus,
You need and perhaps do understand that the Hebrews were influenced by many cultures and religous ideals. Babylonian, Canaanite, Egyption, Persan, just to name a few major ones. These Cultures were influenced by others as well. For example the Babylonians were heavly influenced by the Sumerians, the Persans were influenced heavly by India. Most all of these cultures didn't really write books with long stories they wrote poetry and song to relate the stories, very few were written down and much of what was, has been taked from acient walls that still remain.
Here are some links dealing with this subject, I refer to this site a lot so I have posted this site in other threads
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/phoenicians.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/egypt.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/plagues.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/songs.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/thoth.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/canaan.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/influence.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/hapiru.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/joseph.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/ptah.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/moses.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/exodus.html
There's others but that should keep you busy for a long while.
Seedy
this primarily goes out to other agnostics and athiests.
this week i got into two interesting conversations that i will admit that i was ill prepared for.
one was with a jw friend of mine who wanted to know why i thought jw's were wrong.
Most of the OT is, as peacefulpete indicated, based on older legends then the Hebrews. Most of it was taken from the Babylonians who actually got much of their legends from the Sumerians. The paralels are uncanny. The actual belief in a single ALMIGHTY god really came from the Egyptions with a bit of Zoroastrain thrown in from the period of the repopulating of israel after the Babylonian exile. The belief in Satan is where this also came from. It is suspected that much of the OT is not as old as it is purported to be, really being written or rewritten in or after 587BCE. The legends of Noah, Adam and such are direct references to the Sumerian stories in the Epochs of Gilgamesh and others, with a jewish twist added. During the Babylonian exile the hebrews lost most if not all of thier holy writings and it was not until after the exile was over that they were rewritten. By that time they had adopted much of their captors beliefs.
The Exidous from Egypt didn't happen to the Hebrews it happened to the Hykos (spelling I gotta look it up and don't feel like it right now LOL), but not quite as the bible indicates. They were ran out of Egypt by the Egyptions and moved into the area of Canaan, it is suspected that much of the history in the first few books are adopted from their (Hykos) history, again with an added hebrew twist. The Patriarchs were most likely a combination of the Hebrew and Hykos ancestors along with some the Canaanites history.
The NT's oldest known books are no older then about circa 60-70ad, most however not showing up on the scene until about 100-150ad. A few of the book aer suspect to be even much newer then that. All but a few of the books have really not been traced back to their suspected authors i.e. Matthew, Mark, John. The ones that are traced are mostly the letters Paul wrote, and a few others (I think James is evidenced but I would have to re-research it).
The parallels again are uncanny when it is compaired to other religous beleifs during that time period. Mithras, Osirus, Attis, just to name 3 of them. They all died and were resurected, they were all called savour. They had a small group of men that closely followed them, and some of them even had the Last Supper scene complete with the "Drink this it means my blood and eat this it means my flesh" story line. They all practised babtisem or emersion, some were in blood, but not all. Many were called the word, the son of god, all of the names atributed to Jesus.
The Christian Religon is not original except for the control part, the sin part, most other religions were very open to the others, you could be a worshipper of Attis and go to a Dionysus temple for worship without any problem, Osrius and go to a Mithras Cleric and they were accepted. But not so with Christian beliefs, That part is where the Jewish beleifs come in, the unmoving belief that everyone else is wrong we are the only right ones. Also the idea that Jesus washed away sins is another part that was not in the mystery cults, that I have so far found.
An interesting website that does a comparison is here:
http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getting_started_pocm.html
Seedy
Edited by - seedy3 on 5 February 2003 23:2:0
this primarily goes out to other agnostics and athiests.
this week i got into two interesting conversations that i will admit that i was ill prepared for.
one was with a jw friend of mine who wanted to know why i thought jw's were wrong.
I find most Christians don't want to know the true origins of the bible as a whole, they chose to blindly accept it as the WORD of God, without knowing how it really came about. even the OT has a questionable background when it's history is looked into. The reason most christians accept the bible as "The Truth" is becasue their parents told them and their parents told them and so forth and so forth for generations. Until reciently it was a capital offense to question it. But now that it's origins can be looked into it is becoming a book of question for many.
Seedy
.
this really worries me on several levels.
all of this faith based government funding flies in the face of the constitution.. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0305/hargreaves.php.
I find all too amazing, the Fundie christians think that the only way out of problems in life is through "Jesus", the only way to lick drugs and alcohol, depression and such is with "God" (The bible God that is) and yet if you really look at it it is the christian countries that have the most problems. I know all areas of the world have their own social problems but they seem to be compounded in those in christian areas.
You don't need the bible to be a deicent person, you don't need god to be a giving/helpful person, you don't need church to be an honest person, and you SURE don't need some FUNDIES like the GB or Pat Robertson telling you how to be a decent human.
IMHO
Seedy
if my "not being df'd" stumbles you, you don't have to worry about that for my "hour" has drawn very close.. aside from that, my lord wants me to say something specifically to you and those who are with you (your "household").. he said to tell you:.
mds, stop this!
stop what you are doing.
I want some of what he/she is smoking!!
