been lurking since early this year.
there are many of us out there (at least in this area, central u.s.) who are waking up and crossing the line to talk to each other about it.
in our area, several elders, ministerial servants and pioneers are actively and openly sharing info with each other daily.
Welcome and thanks for the encouraging experiences, so glad you're wife has woke up too as that makes the process sooo much easier.
We have a similar situation where I live in the UK with many waking up including a number of elders, the c.o. has even said to a number of people that there is a big apostasy problem on this circuit and he is going to 'stamp it out'. Personally I don't think his shoes are big enough! This kind of stuff fills me with joy.
i'm always interested to hear what a 'spokesman' for the organization has to say when newspapers report on child abuse issues.. for example the following statement was made in a recent guardian article.
a spokesman for the jehovah’s witnesses said: “we are in no position to, and neither would we wish to, force any victim of abuse to confront their attacker.”.
and this is straight from the shepherd the flock book -.
I'm always interested to hear what a 'spokesman' for the organization has to say when newspapers report on child abuse issues.
For example the following statement was made in a recent Guardian article.
A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses said: “We are in no position to, and neither would we wish to, force any victim of abuse to confront their attacker.”
And this is straight from the shepherd the flock book -
(Note: If the accusation involves child sexual abuse and the victim is currently a minor, the elders should contact the branch office before arranging a meeting with the child and the alleged abuser.)
Here's a link to the article
Comments anyone?
'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.
shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.
that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.
Thanks for the quotes berrygerry, once again we see more WT hypocrisy.
To the sheep
At times, elders are obliged to judge cases of serious wrongdoing. When doing so, they remember that divine justice seeks to extend mercy if at all possible.
To the elders
'In order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'
1 Tim 3:8 "....not double tongued...."
'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.
shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.
that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.
I think despite what the elders book says most elders have a 'if in doubt lean on the side of mercy' mindset, but only according to incredibly harsh rules that have been set out for them.
For example suppose someone is on a judicial for the 2nd time, most elders will probably reason that the reproof failed last time so to them doubt is removed and they will likely df no matter how sorry the individual is.
A prominent elder on our circuit who has sat on many appeal committees once told me that in sexual matters (most jc's) the most important question was whether contraception was used and if so the outcome was very likely to be df.
Once again the org's rules don't leave much room for mercy.
'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.
shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.
that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.
"You may not like this but in the JW org, sins are defined by the Bible as interpreted by the wt."
So where does the bible define smoking, gambling or talking to a df'd person as a sin?
Let's have a look at punishment as defined by the bible -
Prodical son - squandered a fortune living a debauched life, came home when the money ran out - thrown a banquet.
David - had an innocent man killed to cover adultery - kept his position as king but had his baby killed.
Achan - theft - fessed up and was stoned and burned along with his entire family.
So basically pick an example and be as forgiving or harsh as you want.
in their sick and twisted bubble that they live in, the jehovahs witnesses clearly have no idea about the logistical nightmare of disposing of 7.5 billion corpses.. when i heard an elder once say that it will be a joy to clear away the wicked from the earth, he actually had a smile on his face.. can they even begin to imagine what 7.5 billion dead men, women, children & babies looks like?.
"let the eye feel no sorrow".
sick bastards..
About 10 years ago an elder made a point of telling the congregation that the number of meat eating birds in the world had dramatically increased that year, nobody (including myself) bothered to check if there was any truth to this claim, Armageddon was too close to bother checking facts.
'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.
shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.
that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.
'In order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'
Shepherd the flock page 91
I remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.
Then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'. That was the begining of the end for me as I thought surely true Christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.
Any thoughts?
i have far too many to name, but ill start with obscene music, gambling and cussing like a sailor.
all the while preaching to "worldly people" about their impending death at armageddon.
thoughts?.
The coordinator's daughter was df'd for moving in with her non jw boyfriend, they got married and 3 weeks later she was reinstated.
In the same congregation at the same time a brother no relation to any of the elders was df'd for having an affair, after he married the girl he had to attend meetings for over 4 years before being reinstated......simply breathtaking.
i think all of us on this forum would like to welcome all the newbies that have joined in the last six months or so ,if i`m not mistaken there seems to be an influx lately.. elders , ms ,and sisters.
speak up and make a comment , are you happy you came here ?.
we`d love to here from you.. smiddy.
I've been on this forum about 6 months now, been too busy to post much as we've just had our first child but I always enjoy reading threads from you guys, especially new experiences about people waking up.........keep up the good work!
i have never understood this.
was it because of legal reasons?
i cant think of any other reason why it wouldn't be allowed, but i know the elders ask you repeatedly that you are not taping.
One of the reasons is mystical manipulation, most jdubs when questioned about shunning will tell you nobody who is repentant is ever df'd, and the elders only do it as a last resort after trying all they can to lead the sinner to repentance.
They have to believe that because it's the only way in their minds to justify such a cruel punishment.
Recordings of jc's would prove beyond a doubt that none of that is true and what an awful arrangement it actually is.
Well done stuckinarut, I applaud you.
