I don't know but at least the discussion would be more interesting than the usual elders meetings 😂
aboveusonlysky
JoinedPosts by aboveusonlysky
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Latest awake on JW.org
by aboveusonlysky inthe latest awake (no 3 2020) on jw.org is just breathtaking, it's about prejudice and gives the following 3 examples which i will one by one attemp to debunk.. awake - some employers have mistakenly believed that women are unqualified for scientific or technical jobs.. erm... women are not only forbidden from elder or m/s appointment, they're not even considered qualified enough to adjust the height of a brother's microphone, you were saying?.....
awake - in medieval europe, jews were falsely accused of poisoning wells and spreading disease.
during nazi rule, jews were again slandered.
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Latest awake on JW.org
by aboveusonlysky inthe latest awake (no 3 2020) on jw.org is just breathtaking, it's about prejudice and gives the following 3 examples which i will one by one attemp to debunk.. awake - some employers have mistakenly believed that women are unqualified for scientific or technical jobs.. erm... women are not only forbidden from elder or m/s appointment, they're not even considered qualified enough to adjust the height of a brother's microphone, you were saying?.....
awake - in medieval europe, jews were falsely accused of poisoning wells and spreading disease.
during nazi rule, jews were again slandered.
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aboveusonlysky
The latest awake (no 3 2020) on JW.org is just breathtaking, it's about prejudice and gives the following 3 examples which I will one by one attemp to debunk.
Awake - Some employers have mistakenly believed that women are unqualified for scientific or technical jobs.
Erm... women are not only forbidden from elder or m/s appointment, they're not even considered qualified enough to adjust the height of a brother's microphone, you were saying?....
Awake - In medieval Europe, Jews were falsely accused of poisoning wells and spreading disease. During Nazi rule, Jews were again slandered. But this time they were accused of causing the economic crisis in Germany. Both cases resulted in the Jews becoming victims of extreme prejudice, some of which is still evident today.
This is gold!, So here's what an earlier version of the SAME MAGAZINE had to say during Nazi rule....
"Be it known once and for all that those profiteering, conscienceless, selfish men who call themselves Jews, and who control the greater portion of the finances of the world and the business of the world, will never be the rulers in this new earth. God would not risk such selfish men with such an important position" The Golden Age 1927 Feb 23 p.343
No comment needed really, let's move on....
Awake - Many people wrongly conclude that everyone who has a disability is sad or bitter.
Okay, that seems quite an obscure one to me, my guess is that the giant rafter in the eye of the Awake writers made it difficult to come up with a third example of prejudice, anyhoo let's check out what the Bible says about people with disabilities.
Lev 21:16 Jehovah continued to speak to Moses, saying: 17 “Tell Aaron, ‘No man of your offspring* throughout their generations who has a defect may approach to present the bread of his God. 18 If there is any man who has a defect, he may not approach: a man who is blind or lame or has a disfigured face* or one limb too long, 19 a man with a fractured foot or a fractured hand, 20 a hunchback or a dwarf,* or a man with an eye defect or eczema or ringworm or damaged testicles.t 21 No man of the offspring* of Aaron the priest who has a defect may approach to present Jehovah’s offerings made by fire. Because he has a defect, he may not approach to present the bread of his God.
It's knockout stuff from the book the Awake writers claim has the answers to permanently end all forms of prejudice! My guess is that law in Leviticus would give any poor Israelite with a disability good reason to be sad or bitter.
JW.org, it's clear from your teachings that you yourselves are dripping with prejudice toward anybody that doesn't buy into your apocalyptic nonsense, now get back in your bunker and leave the battle against prejudice to those who are qualified to fight it.
Just saying
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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aboveusonlysky
Instead we should be telling people that "you, YOU are choosing to do this and it's unkind and you will feel bad WHEN you realize the truth".
I absolutely agree, well said, also the more exposure this kind of treatment gets the better so that the general public can be aware of cruel JW practices like shunning.
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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aboveusonlysky
Simon
if you can claim that someone should be killed, but the person who pulls the trigger will always be way more guilty.
What about the Manson family then? Should Charles Manson have received a much shorter sentence because he didn't actually kill anybody? Or was it not established that he was more guilty because he used undue influence to cause others to murder? I know we're not talking about murder here but other than that what's the difference?
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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aboveusonlysky
The following case is interesting
Example case - R (Williamson and others) v Secretary of State for Education and Employment and others [2005]
A group of parents and teachers tried unsuccessfully to use Article 9 to overturn the ban on corporal punishment of children in schools. They believed that part of the duty of education in the Christian context was for teachers to assume the parental role and administer physical punishment to misbehaving children. The House of Lords rejected the case because the parents’ rights under Article 9 were restricted by the need to protect children from the harmful effects that corporal punishment might cause – a punishment that involves deliberately inflicting physical violence.
So if 'a punishment that involves deliberately inflicting physical violence' can be outlawed why not a punishment that deliberately inflicts emotional damage? This is no small area as it can be easily proven that religious shunning causes severe emotional problems and even suicide. Again I'm talking about the POLICY, not an individual's right to not invite a family member to tea.
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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aboveusonlysky
StephaneLaliberte
again, to me, it is not the practice of shunning that should be illegal. it is the practice of organizing and enforcing it.
I totally agree, article 9 of the human rights act says the following -
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching practice and observance.
It would be a case of proving that the official policy requiring members to shun those who leave and speak out against the organization is an infringement of the above right, IMO it is, I also believe far more people would openly speak out against watchtower if their official shunning policy didn't exist, the difficulty would be proving it in court but I'm sure harder cases have been proven in the past.
Take for example online bullying that includes coercion to ostracise, In America different states have different laws that are changing all the time.
Also the argument that we should 'get over it' because there are bigger issues is just ridiculous, no matter what injustice happens to us there is always something worse that could of happened, a homosexual being fired because his company has homophobic policies is not as bad as his entire family shunning him because his religion has similar policies, but few would criticize if he sought compensation from his company so why not his religion? 40 years ago such a case would have no chance but laws change making such things possible. -
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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aboveusonlysky
'So what do they care then?
A club they don't want to belong to doesn't want them as a member ...
That's where this always ends up. "I want to leave - but how dare they say I can't be a member!".'Again harsh, it's often nothing to do with being a member and everything to do with losing your family because of shunning, COERCED shunning, get some empathy dude!
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Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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aboveusonlysky
'I say "for some reason" because the only valid reason to persist with it is if you think they do represent god and it's really him setting the rules. In which case, why not obey them? If you think the rules are invalid and should not be obeyed then why do you want to go?'
So are you saying that those that don't believe but still go to meetings or try to fade quietly purely to keep their family together or buy some time in trying to wake up family members are wrong to do so? If so that's extremely judgemental.
You also argue all your points as if everything is a choice, haven't you heard of undue influence? If inciting a person or a crowd to commit an act of violence is a crime then what about inciting bullying by means of organizationally mandated shunning? It's nothing to do with forcing people to eat donuts or whatever your illustration meant.
Richard Oliver - you still haven't answered my question as to whether you think scientology's disconnection policy is fair or not, you are free to express your pro-JW opinions on this forum (and rightly so) so do you think it's right that one of us would be immediately booted off JWtalk for saying anything negative about the org?
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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aboveusonlysky
Richard Oliver once again you could not be more wrong. Consider the following statement -
You might think bullying is worse than ostracism, but recent research suggests that being frozen out is actually more painful. From social exclusion on the playground to being ignored in the workplace, ostracism is among the most devastating experiences we can endure, deeply connected to our most fundamental human need to be recognized and accepted. Ostracism can reshape the human brain, and in extreme cases, even make a person want to go on a killing spree. Isn’t it time we knew more about it?
http://www.alternet.org/culture/social-death-penalty-why-being-ostracized-hurts-even-more-bullying
Even at my child's primary school they teach that ignoring someone is a cruel form of bullying, can I ask, do you think scientology's disconnection policy is cruel or fair?
Regarding the announcement it's obvious it means shun or be shunned, there are loads of former jdubs that aren't shunned, but try having a friendship with someone who's been announced and you'll quickly be on the end of congregation discipline. The statement 'let him have it' could mean pass him the ball or stab him to death, one is innocent and the other is not. To say the announcement that someone is no longer a JW is merely a true statement is intellectually dishonest.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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aboveusonlysky
Am I right in saying that in Bulgaria it's illegal for someone to be disfellowshipped for having a blood transfusion? So if that happens the disfellowshipped victim could successfully sue the organization and so could anyone who was disfellowshipped for associating with them, sure loads of people would still shun out of choice but the law would make the org think twice about announcing that person was no longer a JW.
What if the same law was applied to anyone who spoke out against the org? after all it's part of the human rights agenda to have freeness of speech and choice of belief without negative consequence, so dfing an 'apostate' could lead to the org being sued.