i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.
i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.
and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.
Hell, it's like a vacation to them. This is why our country has so many repeat offenders.
I don't mean to be rude, but that displays a gross level of ignorance toward the reality of life behind bars. I would choose death over life in prison every time without hesitation.
Stop reading conservative propaganda about what prisoners go through -- they are lying to you.
i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.
i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.
and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.
Seeker, I don't know what country you're from.
Same as you.
But here in the US we are self-governed.So was Germany. Lot of good that did. Hitler, after all, was very popular among the common man for a very long time. Mussolini had great support as well. Self-governance doesn't prevent tragedies. People can be manipulated into believing propaganda and maneuvered in ways they may not have originally intended.
Therefore, if the PEOPLE do not like a proposition, they can vote NO.Yes, they can. Unfortunately, no matter how gruesome the laws get, people can be manipulated into thinking it's 'for the good of the country', or it's 'to protect the children', or it's 'for our safety.' It can take a long time, and many people can die, before a populace can rise up and overthrow people who are manipulating them. And, of course, once in power, a bad ruler can use that power to suppress the will of the people, as we saw eventually in Germany. Best not to give them that power in the first place.
And yes, I do see parallels between what you are proposing ('kill everyone who does X') and history. It always begins with good intentions...
i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.
i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.
and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.
Don't try to turn my opinion on hardened criminals and make a leap of faith to genocide. You won't sidetrack me.
Wasn't trying to; was trying to show you the logical endgame of your plan. When you put people in power, and give them a law that allows them to kill citizens when they violate law X, it's a short leap for law X to be expanded more and more. Then you are at the mercy of the lawmakers to not include your behavior under law X. As we have seen in past history, that is not a gamble worth taking.
Zero tolerance laws are never a good idea. Each case must be decided on its own merits or else you wind up with severe cases of miscarriage of justice. Add the death penalty into the equation and then you are not far from a tragedy.
i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.
i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.
and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.
How about, say, one month after your third felony conviction we GAS YOUR ASS?!?!?
Excellent idea, LDH. Maybe we could then simplify the qualification for being gassed to death. Perhaps being a Jew?
i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.
i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.
and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.
Good heavens, Englishman! It sounded as if you took my post to you at face value. I hope not. I was parodying certain, uh, less-than-knowledgable Americans I have had contact with.
why are jw women so loyal to the borg?.
during the last 12 year i have been doing a lot of research about mainly the chronology of jw about the year 1914. my family are still in and very active and i serve still as elder.
my research has make me dropped the whole chronology about the year 1914 and also the authorities of dfs/gb.
why is it so tuff to make a JW women think
Because they are taught not to think by the WTS.
I'll let that inflmmatory statement settle in while I acknowledge what you and others in this thread have said: It's hard for any of us, of either gender, to make this mental change. Patience and persistence are key.
Now back to my statement. Here's why I said that:
1. "Independent thinking" is outlawed for all. What do you have when independent thinking is discouraged as a tool of Satan? Right, all you have left is dependent thinking.
2. Wives are told to be subject to their husband. They are told that if they have to correct their husband, to phrase it in a question, so as not to be seen as rebellious. Under no circumstances are they to correct other brothers.
3. They are not allowed to teach the congregation, but have to face each other in school talks. The message received is: I am not qualified to teach others.
4. They are not supposed to answer certain types of questions in the Watchtower study, questions that only elders (and maybe M.S.) are supposed to raise their hand for.
When you take a culture like this, the message is clear: My thoughts are not as valuable as a man's. From there, it can be a short leap to: Why should I think? Unless they are strong-minded enough to resist the propaganda.
With your wife, I would suggest counteracting the mental programming she has absorbed by encouraging her to think independently. Praise her when she stands on her own. Help her to fight the mental abuse that women experience within the WTS. Help her to see she is of value, her opinions are of value, and her thoughts are of value. Maybe then she will learn to trust her thoughts and not fight them.
Remember, this is not the way I view women, but the way the WTS does. It seems obvious to me that the thoughts of all humans are equally of value. Sadly, the WTS does not agree.
i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.
i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.
and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.
Silly ol' Englishman, don't you know that none of those opinions matter? Those were Europeans talking, and what do they know? Why, we here are Americans! Not some commie, pinko Europeans that needed our help in WWII or else the whole world would have been lost! What do those loser, liberal Europeans know about anything? We're sick of those ungrateful whiners.
Seeker, who has heard too much jingoism in recent days...
i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.
i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.
and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.
As far as I'm concerned, the bottom line issue in the USA for whether or not to allow the death penalty to stand comes down to one issue:
MONEY.
Better eliminate the death penalty in that case. It cost more money to execute McVeigh than it would have taken to house him for life.
obviously a lot of you are no longer jws, for whatever reason, but surely you can find something better to do with your time.
you seem to spend a lot of your spare time slating the society or picking holes in your former beliefs.. if you've left and think what jws believe is a load of rubbish, thtat fine, you cn do what you want, but why you have to go on about it?
if being a jw means so little to you, why not just leave it behind and get on with your life?
Humble,
Allow me to take your argument apart, piece by piece:
The problem with apostates is that they do not do their own research.
I did my own research and decided that this wasn't the Truth before I ever visited any web sites. Then I read what others posted, and I went to the Kingdom Hall library and looked it up for myself.
They visit and read postings in other apostate sites and believe every work they read. This is what they accuse real JW's from doing.
I do not believe every work I read, and I have stated my disagreements online. I challenge anything that isn't true, or accurate, or logical.
They listen to bitter men such as Ray Franz and believe all their accusations. They would lead you to believe that these are humble men and great writers, but in reality these are used by Satan to fill good people with harmful doubts about Jehovah and the way he handles matters.
If you ever read Ray's writings, you would see that isn't the least bit bitter. You'd be amazed at the tone he uses; I was, for I believed the JW rumors about him, just as you seem to believe them. But that's all they are, false rumors designed to slander someone.
Some of the apostates on this site are former elders that claim that everything they did was because they followed the Watchtower's way of doing things.
That would include me.
The truth is that they were horrible elders, and for one reason or another they were removed.
I was not removed, I stepped down because my conscience would not allow me to continue.
Because of their pride, they cannot accept that they were horrible elders that misused their power and took advantage of Jehovah's flock.
To this day, JWs in my old congregation talk about how they miss me as an elder, and how kind I was. I never took advantage of anyone, as the JWs in my old congregation will testify.
Now that you are confronted with someone who proves every statement you made to be false, what do you say?
i would love it if any other gay witnesses would e-mail [email protected]'m new to this whole discussion group thing so don't make fun of m :-p but um, i have a lot to say about the whole being a gay jw thing....but don't want to say it here, lol so just e-mail me.. hope to talk to you soon.. sod
Welcome to the board! There are a couple of gay ex-JWs who post here. San Francisco Jim is one, and he runs a web site for gay ex-JWs called A Common Bond. Hang on a sec, lemme see if I can search it out for you: OK, found it, and it has the very intuitive URL of: www.gayxjw.org
Feel free to post here, most of the folks will be very nonjudgmental (though we do have a few idiots on the subject). But you might find even more interesting that web site, or one linked from it that is closer to your location.
