Posts by Seeker

35

American Witnesses face difficult time over flag

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

reports are coming from the united states that small flags and flag badges are being distributed at schools and other public places.. many are refusing to take a flag and this is causing resentment and hurt feelings.

not wishing to offend, witnesses are asking their elders what they should do.. cheers,.

ozzie.

Seeker

You know what? I wouldn't want a flag forced upon me (or strongly encouraged in some group think). If you want to grab a flag to show your support of America, go for it. But if you choose to show your support in less visible ways while not going along with some of the worst jingoism that can appear at times like these, I think that's acceptable too. I hate to see free speech trampled on in any way, shape, or form. Forcing people to express themselves in a certain way rankles me as much as silencing unpopular ideas.

Make the flags available. But as soon as you start passing them out to each individual, and berating those who don't go along, you cross the line of American free speech. I hate to see how easily the public can be manipulated by patriotic propaganda.

6

inside the mind of a suicide bomber

by teejay in

jw
friends

someone, i'd like to know who, bought my daughter an electronic songbook.

it has four bedtime lullabies that can be played by pressing a button that corresponds to one of its songs.

the only song that it contains that i knew already was twinkle, twinkle, little star.

Seeker

It goes even deeper, into the religious thoughts inside their heads. For them, we are infidels, dogs who are damned by their God anyway. What is our life to them, the true followers of God?

They hate us for religious reasons, as well as political. That is why there will be no reasoning with them, no repentance from them, and no respite from their side no matter who and how many we kill.

Religious fanatacism is a terrible thing in any form. What they did to America is merely in a concrete, immediate sense what You Know and the WTS and Rex and the fundies tell us God wants to do to those of us who do not believe precisely the same as they do. Just as there is no reasoning with You Know or Rex on this board, there will be no reasoning with these terrorists. We've all seen how blind a religious fanatic can be.

34

Did Bethel Really let 900 rescue workers...

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

...stay in their facilities?.

my sister just called me, with the idea of 'comforting' me wt style (bad idea *lol*) i shut her down by saying "i respect that these are your religious views, but they are not mine.

" that managed to shut her up finally.. before that, though she volunteered this info, i was wondering if anyone can confirm it?.

Seeker

Esmeralda,

Thanks for understanding my desire to point out the good as well as the bad.

If they simply reacted slowly...out of shock perhaps, then that would be understandable.

I think that actually is what happened, to be honest. They were shocked, as we all were, and probably wondered if there were more targets, as those of us in NYC were wondering, and they probably reacted in fear initially. I totally understand that. But it told me something too. They say you can tell what a person is truly like when they are under great stress, or in an emergency. All the pretense falls aside, and their true nature emerges under the adrenaline rush. A person concerned for others shows that concern then, even while running for their lives. A person who is selfish shows that selfishness then, especially while running for their lives.

Last Tuesday, the GB got a shock, and in the adrenaline rush that followed they showed their true character. It was not one of Christian caring and charity. It was not the way Jesus would have acted. Their initial response was to lock the doors in fear and ignore those around them.

Whatever else good they may have done later, or are doing now or in the near future, that initial response told me all I needed to know about their claims of true Christianity -- it is false. Their true nature is selfish and fearful -- "Me first". Now that they have recovered their composure, and are again thinking about putting on their best face for the public, they may well be doing some good things. They may even have some charitable feelings toward the rescue workers. But that initial reaction was ugly, for that is what they are like at the core.

34

Did Bethel Really let 900 rescue workers...

by Esmeralda in

jw
friends

...stay in their facilities?.

my sister just called me, with the idea of 'comforting' me wt style (bad idea *lol*) i shut her down by saying "i respect that these are your religious views, but they are not mine.

" that managed to shut her up finally.. before that, though she volunteered this info, i was wondering if anyone can confirm it?.

Seeker

I haven't heard about this 900 rescure workers housed at Bethel story, but it's not impossible. In years past, when firefighters were putting out a fire at Bethel, they totally opened up other buildings to them and fed them and gave them anything they needed. Now in this case, Brooklyn is across the bridge and all, but I suppose it's close enough that maybe the out-of-town firefighters might have asked for help.

We tend to criticize the WTS no matter what. You know how we ridicule them for saying "If things are good, it means the end is near, and if things are bad, it means the end is near"? We tend to be guilty of the same thing here. No matter what they do, they are guilty, huh?

Well, their initial reaction was bad, and represents their true heart inclination -- take care of themselves, and ignore everyone else. Their PR stuff was gag-inducing. And individual JWs who minimized this disaster are disgusting, as are the GB for what they told the Bethel family, as are the GreatCrowd.com folks who made their awful comments.

On the other hand, this past Sunday I heard that Bethel had a few specially picked elders go to various bereavement locations (such as the armory) to be available to give a comforting message solely from the Bible, no literature, no selling, just comforting words. You can get all cynical about what their true message is behind the scenes, but the fact is that this is precisely the sort of preaching you would want them to do. I commend them for this. When they do right, I say call it right.

If they opened up Bethel for firefighters, then I commend them for that as well. Maybe they only did it after the initial criticisms about doing nothing, but one way or another they did it. Let's be fair.

11

Another PR Screwup

by messenger in

jw
friends

well it appears watchtower just blinked...... again.

on 9-11-01 the official press release was criticized on many levels.

it appears criticism came from several sources as the 9-16-01 version of the 9-11-01 press release had seven changes from the original.

Seeker

Great job, Messenger. One comment:

“new” PR#5
A volunteer brings Timothy a cup of water and offers him a chair. "You don't know how happy I feel to have made it to Brooklyn, coming down from 83 floors in the air." When he realized he really was out of danger, he added, "I feel safe."
Comments:
This change is very interesting, “ the house of Jehovah” dropped completely. Could it be that the Society does not want to give away there best kept secret? A special dispensation given direct from God to Brooklyn Bethel that prevents any harm from coming to Watchtower property in the event of any disaster. If the brothers let this get out, thousands of brothers and sisters would flood Brooklyn anytime a disaster hit and it would certainly be bothersome to have to “reach out” to more than twenty to thirty at a time. Another line of reasoning might be that they actually do know it is not the “house of Jehovah” but they just do not want the Witnesses to know that little known fact.

The reason they made this change was to match their earlier change when speaking about Timothy. If they no longer wanted to identify him as a JW, it wouldn't make sense to quote him talking about the "house of Jehovah." This change was done to keep things consistent. If they left in this quote, it would be obvious he was a JW, and that would defeat the purpose.

I doubt it has anything to do with JWs thinking Bethel is a magic place of safety. Old-time JWs used to think like that, but modern JWs know full well that JWs get killed and Kingdom Halls get flattened all the time in disasters. The old superstitions are dying away, and I doubt the PR department was concerned about this. I'm certain my explanation above (making things consistent) is more likely.

However, this PR change makes is clear that they were embarrassed by their earlier post. Enough people must have criticized them for only helping fellow JWs that they felt the need to pretend otherwise.

70

My husband is smoking pot

by jurs in

jw
friends

i know this is not witness related but i just caught my husband smoking pot.

i am so upset !!!

he is an alcoholic and has a terrible temper.

Seeker

Six,

I agree, there absolutely can be an informed hedonism. It's probably fairly common too. I don't worry so much about someone who gets drunk once in a long while, or smokes pot a few times, as I do about someone who does it a lot. You can smoke a cigarette a handful of times in your life and you will hardly be harming your health. Make a habit of it, however...

17

WT says Don't look or hear news

by Patriot in

jw
friends

i just got this from a witness who i bumped into yesterday.

she is very disturbed by this announcement the congo.

got on friday at their service meeting:.

Seeker

Since it has been reported that Bethelites were told not to watch so much news, perhaps some elders in congregations have taken their cue from that, while other elders haven't heard about it yet.

24

Why Americans Hated

by Satanus in

jw
friends

here is a mild, brief explanation to answer the question: why??.

i am certainly not minimizing the loss of life, anguish and fear being experienced by americans and canadians.. the following is from this address.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/archive/article/0%2c4273%2c4255855%2c00.html.

Seeker

Thanks for posting this; it's good to hear the other side of the issue as well. We've had plenty of posts that reprinted cheering for all that America has done well, and rightly so, for America has done much good in this world for many nations. But with all the good America does, it also has done bad things, things that cause some to hate America.

American politicians have been lying to us all week long about the reasons for this attack. "They hate our freedom," they say, but that's not true. "They are jealous of us," they claim, but that's not true either. The attacks were because of religious hatred, and resentment over some heavy-handed American actions over the years.

Only a balanced view of the world will help us understand what is happening, and how to respond. Bush today promised we "will rid the world of evil-doers." That is such a stupid thing to say one hardly knows where to begin to respond. It's that sort of simplistic thinking that will perpetuate the danger. If you get rid of every last one of these terrorists, it still won't solve the problem is America continues to throw its weight around in places where it is not wanted. It will just cause more people to spring up that hate America.

No, the solution here is to not only hunt down the people that committed this atrocity, but also to reevaluate our overall interactions with the rest of the world. Some countries want our help -- give it to them. Some countries want nothing to do with us -- fine, leave them alone. The old way of being the biggest big brother/biggest bully on the block won't work. All the good deeds in the world won't help if some of our bad deeds inspire such murderous hatred in others.

None of the above is designed to excuse the actions that happened last week. Nothing can excuse such actions. But if we don't learn to understand the motives of our enemy, we will keep going in violent circles, continually asking, "Why did this happen?"

70

My husband is smoking pot

by jurs in

jw
friends

i know this is not witness related but i just caught my husband smoking pot.

i am so upset !!!

he is an alcoholic and has a terrible temper.

Seeker

God help me, I just agreed with sf. D.A.R.E. is nothing more than propaganda designed to perpetuate the phony war on drugs. This government needs drugs, and would be lost without Americans and their addictive tendencies.

Me, I'm a live and let live kind of guy. You want to smoke pot? Go for it. But let's not kid ourselves. It's self-destructive behavior. Yes, it is. I think we can all agree that cigarette smoke is bad for the lungs. Well, ignoring any pharmacalogical aspects of marijuana, there is at least the smoke in the lungs part that is bad for the body. Period. So anyone who smokes pot is harming their bodies.

Anyone who gets drunk is also harming their bodies.

Anyone who smokes is also harming their bodies.

We all know this, at least on some level. So while I'm a live and let live kind of guy (and very much opposed to the war on drugs), I tend to question the motives of anyone who smokes/gets drunk/smokes pot/takes any other drug. It's self-descructive behavior, and a person does not normally engage in such activity. So I would wonder why they are acting in that way, against their best interests.

It could be for as simple and transparent a reason as ignorant hedonism -- "it feels good, so I do it and besides how bad could it be anyway?"

Or there could be deeper emotional flaws at work that cause self-descructive behavior.

In any relationship I was in where my partner began to harm themselves, the first thing I would want to find out is why they are doing it. Not why they casually say they are doing it (we're good at fooling ourselves), but why they are really doing it. There may be an underlying cause that is affecting them emotionally and is manifesting itself in various ways, pot smoking included.

For those of you who wish to deny that you operate because of emotional causes, just tell yourself that I'm delusional and go about your merry way.

4

Bethelites 'ordered to keep working'

by bboyneko 2 in

jw
friends

my sister also forwarded some "experiences" from bethelites who .

witnessed tuesday's events.

they did put some coffee and sandwiches .

Seeker

They did put some coffee and sandwiches outside of the building for passerby's

There are no passersby that go past the Society's buildings, except for those few who live in the Brooklyn Heights area. Any of them who were evacuating and passed by the Society's buildings were already home, and thus needed no help. Those who needed help were those exiting the Brooklyn bridge, and had more to walk. Did the Society ask Bethelites to walk a few hundred yards to pass out coffee and sandwiches to those who actually needed it?