by ozziepost 35 Replies latest jw friends
Reports are coming from the United States that small flags and flag badges are being distributed at schools and other public places.
Many are refusing to take a flag and this is causing resentment and hurt feelings. Not wishing to offend, Witnesses are asking their elders what they should do.
Cheers,
Ozzie
"It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Anonymous
You know what? I wouldn't want a flag forced upon me (or strongly encouraged in some group think). If you want to grab a flag to show your support of America, go for it. But if you choose to show your support in less visible ways while not going along with some of the worst jingoism that can appear at times like these, I think that's acceptable too. I hate to see free speech trampled on in any way, shape, or form. Forcing people to express themselves in a certain way rankles me as much as silencing unpopular ideas.
Make the flags available. But as soon as you start passing them out to each individual, and berating those who don't go along, you cross the line of American free speech. I hate to see how easily the public can be manipulated by patriotic propaganda.
This is so true. You should see the flags in our little town. In about a 25-minute drive down the interstate my daughter saw 36 flags on car antennas. Our short road of about 20 some houses has at least 3/4th of them flying flags. They are handing out braclets with flags on them at the stores and the Sunday newspaper had a flag in it that you could unfold and place in your window. In all my days I have not seen anything like this, even on the 4th of July!! There are flags all over the place. You can't go 1/4 of a mile down the freeway or one city block in town without seeing one. It is something else. I wonder if that what it was like for my parents during WWII?
We did have the JWs out in force on Sunday afternoon here just like all were saying would happen. With their words of "comfort" they made it clear that they were only here for that and were not to argue about patiotism and the blood issues according to the JW that was here. She was of course hoping that I would have some fear in me and that I would want to get my butt back to the KH, but I only thanked her for her concern and gave her no indication that I was steeping back into it. Her mom was with her and asked me if I knew where the new (2 years old) KH was. I said "Oh yes, I drive by it all the time. They did a nice job on it." What could she say. Nothing. We three chatted a while and then they left. I think they just come here for an easy call which I don't mind. I get the subscription renewed to keep up on what they are doing, so I know and she gives me the latest stuff. I am an easy call. I know that the younger JW, who is the one who regularlly calls, really hopes that she will help me back in and that this disaster might just do it. They had a record breaking number at the Hall that morning, some 174 people, she told me.
People are scared is what I told her. I told her that I was sure that the churches were filled that morning too! Hmmm...do you think she will ever get it? .....nah...
Lindy
Imagine being an American JW of Arabic descent. I know a few JWs of Arabic descent in Canada. I can't imagine what they will now endure.
This is like the time when Kramer was in the AIDS walk but he refused to wear the ribbon..
Forcing people to express themselves in a certain way rankles me as much as silencing unpopular ideas.
Seeker, I believe that is one of the wisest observations I have ever read of yours on this board. You put me into the position of finding absolutely no rebuttal. Damn.
... as soon as you start passing them out to each individual, and berating those who don't go along, you cross the line of American free speech. I hate to see how easily the public can be manipulated by patriotic propaganda.
Again... very on point. I'm afraid that you have pinpointed a significant feature of what this 'tragedy' is all about. A mass conformity, allowing Western powers to do whatever the hell they want, with the full backing of a patriotic, God-Himself-Blesses-America people.
The Muslims have no exclusive hold on god, you understand. Both sides of every (athletic) contest prays for victory, and for one side or the other, he always comes through. Go god!
tj
p.s. As I posted earlier in another thread, after I came to my senses last week and got over that wisp of nationalistic chauvenism (long about Wednesday), I began to question the neatness of it all.
I've held off buying my own personal copy of Old Glory, but if I'm pressed you can bet that I'll be in line to show my 'patriotism.' Ain't no god-lovin' American burnin' my house down, nosirreee.
teejay,
The next time you rebut one of my posts, or we engage in an argument, I will think back to this reply of yours with fondness. Thanks!
It's not easy expressing an unpopular idea in public. Right now, it's unpopular not to be very publicly patriotic in a conformist way. I am anything but a conformist, and groupthink always gives me the chills. I support and appreciate my country, and will help out as I can, but stay away from my mind. That's mine, thank you very much.
Ozziepost wrote:
>>Many are refusing to take a flag and this is causing resentment and hurt feelings. Not wishing to offend, Witnesses are asking their elders what they should do.<<
I can only say, aren't they lucky they still live in a country where they have a right to their refusal.
Silverleaf
Seeker, Tj, Silverleaf,
Let me try to paraphrase a quote from an unknown author I heard today:
SOLDIERS
You poet's can be poetic..........because of 'SOLDIERS'
You dissenter's can dessent.......because of 'SOLDIERS'
You demonstrator's can demonstrate...because of 'SOLDIERS'
You pacificts can pacify...........because of 'SOLDIERS'
You flag burner's can burn.........because of 'SOLDIERS'
You wealthy are wealthy............because of 'SOLDIERS'
You who are free, will only remain such.........
Its nice to talk about all our freedoms, it is another thing to pay the highest price, to enjoy it....because of 'SOLDIERS'
Danny
Ahhh, my Friend Danny...
Spoken like a true war-mongering Republican!
I joke, of course. Don't get me wrong. One of the most meaningful movies I've ever seen is Saving Private Ryan. I woke up in the middle of the night the day AFTER seeing it with the movie on my mind. I thought about it for days, so great its impact on me -- what those men and women did in support of the very things you said. It forced me to not only review but radically readjust my JW 'neutrality' stance on war. What men and women do in battle, sacrificing all they have, is beyond remarkable. I have nothing but respect and deep admiration for soldiers of every stripe, regardless of their country.
What I despise, however, is being manipulated... in being positioned to sacrifice everything I have or could be for the sake of another man's political motivations, a man who will surely go home to his family each and every night and enjoy a full life. I hate being tricked into a certain way of thinking, as well, to having an "enemy" created out of half-truths (and outright lies) right in front of me so that my emotions, ergo my behavior, can be channeled in a certain direction. I can't be positive that isn't happening now. One thing I know: I've spent enough of my life being a blind believer. I want to know the whole story before I sacrifice anymore of my precious time and talents.
When called upon, when asked to give MY LIFE, I will have to be certain that my sacrificing everything will not be to make someone a little richer, enabling them to buy a fourth chalet in the Alps. I need to have something more than the sound of the National Anthem playing and the sight of Old Glory flapping in the breeze before I get in line to take a bullet. My life is worth a bit more than that. When that time comes, though, I will do as others have done. I will defend my family.
peace,
tj
