Posts by Seeker

12

Feeling Patriotic for the 1st time

by lisaBObeesa in

jw
friends

all of the sudden, i feel patriotic.

for the first time in my life.. and it isnt fake patriotisim, like some people have said.

i just didnt feel it on sept 10.. i feel very american all of the sudden.

Seeker

I'll be the contrarian again. I'm not patriotic, and never will be. I have always agreed with Einstein's thought that nationalism is the measles of the human race. It divides humanity. Am I an American? Sure, by accident of birth. But I am foremost a human, and I view all humans as my brothers regardless of nation.

Do I want to see these terrorists killed? Yes, I want those particular brothers killed, for they are dangerous to society. Do I support my president (yes, he's my president, again because of my citizenship)? Yes, I do.

But patriotic? Uh, no. I hate death and destruction against any member of the human race, not just Americans. Is what happened last week as unprecedented as American newscasters have breathlessly told us? Nope, just for Americans, and only in scope. This isn't even the first time the WTC has been attacked by terrorists with loss of life as a result. Only the scope made it particularly horrific. People in other parts of the globe have been living with this awful plague of terrorism for many years. We finally see what they are going through. No, let me correct that -- we finally feel what they are going through.

I am encouraged every time I see the unity the world is showing. I am discouraged every time I hear someone say we should nuke a country for revenge. But no, I'm not patriotic, for I am a human above all, and I grieve for the people of 80 nations that lost their life last week at the WTC, not just the Americans. And I grieve for anything that divides humanity, and that includes nationalism.

Go ahead, attack me now since I don't walk in lockstep. Because I resist the propaganda that has been washing over us. But that's how I felt before this attack, and I feel the same now. No point in being an independent thinker if you can't stick by your principles.

4

interview w/ bin Laden

by teejay in

jw
friends

abcnews correspondent john miller's interview with osama bin ladin.. john miller: mr. bin ladin, to americans you are an interesting figure: a man who comes from a background of wealth and comforts who ended up fighting on the front lines.

many americans would think that's unusual.. osama bin ladin: thanks be to allah.

it is hard for one to understand if the person does not understand islam.

Seeker

Oh great! He believes in fate, too. So now all those yahoos who are yelling, "Let's kick some ass!" will see a foe who, even if he is caught and killed, will merely think it is Allah's will and will accept death with equanimity.

There will be no satisfaction from this military action for Americans. Something must be done, but everything that could be done (including no action at all) will lead to more death (including Americans).

One thing that cannot be defeated in battle is fanatical idealogy.

38

WTC Eight Black Boxes Dedtroyed

by Satanus in

jw
friends

" [ntsb web site] .

"both the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder have proven to be valuable tools in the accident investigation process.

Seeker

Some thoughts:

I'm as willing as anyone to suspect a cover-up. But this article goes over the top. For one thing, it would be shocking if they even FOUND the black boxes at the WTC yet. With the amount of rubble involved, it may take some time.

However, I will grant that if they find all the boxes, and they can't get data from any of them, the fix is in. But from doing some research, it seems they ARE able to read some of the boxes that have been found, at least the flight data recorders if not the voice recorders. I've included the URLs below of what I found. So I think this article was a bit too quick to assume conspiracy. Time will tell, but it's early yet.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/210901/dlfor16.asp

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/18/inv.investigation.terrorism/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/nyregion/21CND-RESC.html?searchpv=nytToday

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Attacks-Safety-Board.html?searchpv=aponline

44

Questions="dishonest baiting"?

by Julie in

jw
friends

three little scriptures that i feel reflect the opposite of all that christians claim biblegod to be.

i merely asked a hard-core defender of the faith to justify these as actions of an all-loving, enlightened supreme being.

here they are along with the "explanations" of them (in a nutshell):.

Seeker

That saying, and that anecdote, are classic cases of child abuse. I'd like to think a God of love is above this sort of dysfunctional behavior.

46

Jay Dubs right about 1914

by FrightMare in

jw
friends

please study this chart very, very carefully: http://www.sru.edu/depts/artsci/ges/d-3-2.htm.

why has such an unprecedented boom in population and technology occurred during the specific time the bible points to the 'last days', 1914?

Seeker

Humans have been living on the earth for tens of thousands of years with little or no progress; then suddenly an expolsion in progress.

The Enlightenment caused this. Thinkers began to throw off the shackles of religion and turned to science instead. End result = explosion in progress.

The Roman Empire had many technological advances. Then it was overthrown, and the Dark Ages began. What reigned supreme during the Dark Ages? Religion. What happened when religion was put in its place? Progress.

46

Jay Dubs right about 1914

by FrightMare in

jw
friends

please study this chart very, very carefully: http://www.sru.edu/depts/artsci/ges/d-3-2.htm.

why has such an unprecedented boom in population and technology occurred during the specific time the bible points to the 'last days', 1914?

Seeker

Oh please! All John said was "those ruining the Earth." Ever heard the expression "There goes the neighborhood"? It could be as simple as John thinking that the Romans were ruining things for the Christians with their persecution.

As for the Earth being ruined, nothing you mentioned will do it. Global warming? Ozone? Forget it. Those things will have major effects, but not the loss of all life on earth, or the ruination of the planet. Changes <> Ruination.

64

Bush's speech -- I'll be the first to admit...

by Seeker in

jw
friends

...it was an effective speech.

i was impressed, and thought it only fair to say so here given the recent political discussions.

Seeker

It's not surprising to me, really. A reporter's personal beliefs don't indicate what actually gets in print. Since the major corporations are in charge now, if a reporter submitted a story that would hurt the bottom line, it gets canned. How do you think the howling masses would react to a news story indicating bad faith on the part of the president or congress, taking advantage of this situation to push personal agendas? They would call that newspaper or TV station "un-American" and boycott. That hurts the bottom line, and thus no such story gets written.

Once people calm down, perhaps then we can learn more of the truth of what is happening. But right now if you don't wave the flag like everyone else, yer a dirty traitor. Reminding Americans about the right of free speech is wasted nowadays.

64

Bush's speech -- I'll be the first to admit...

by Seeker in

jw
friends

...it was an effective speech.

i was impressed, and thought it only fair to say so here given the recent political discussions.

Seeker

Why the hell is the lame street press letting him away with it

Because the press has been totally emasculated. It's been happening gradually after the right-wing grew incensed at the press for what it did to Nixon. It sped up after corporations began buying up the media companies, and encorcing profit-first rules while cutting back on resources, as well as insisting that their reporters not report anything that would hurt the parent's bottom line. Finally, during the Gulf War, the Pentagon explicitly censored the news coverage. Unlike with Vietnam, the reporters went right along quietly.

Today, if you want the truth about America, you cannot rely solely on American media. They will not tell you the whole story, and their amazing lack of questioning at this moment in time is more evidence of this.

64

Bush's speech -- I'll be the first to admit...

by Seeker in

jw
friends

...it was an effective speech.

i was impressed, and thought it only fair to say so here given the recent political discussions.

Seeker

hawk,

My concerns:

a) Who is responsible? bin Laden? Probably, but I don't trust the government to tell us the truth about the matter. It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be some other terrorist group, and the U.S. decided to pin the blame on bin Laden to get revenge for past attacks. Not saying this is the case, but I felt uncomfortable that bin Laden was named on the air within minutes of the WTC attack.

b) What is the goal? To "rid the world of evil-doers"? That's laughably impossible. Today, the president's spokesperson said, "The president's goal is the cessation of terrorism." Very nice, but impossible. Sounds like the bad old days of Vietnam, making the world safe for democracy. When your goal is open-ended, you never reach it. There will ALWAYS be more terrorists (new ones are being born today). There needs to be better focus. Or maybe there is better focus and Bush is just lying to us.

64

Bush's speech -- I'll be the first to admit...

by Seeker in

jw
friends

...it was an effective speech.

i was impressed, and thought it only fair to say so here given the recent political discussions.

Seeker

hawkaw,

I don't think that thread directly talked about these policies. It was wide-ranging, and it got ugly, but on different topics.

I'd be happy to explain my views on this war against terrorism, but they won't be popular around here, that's for sure.