how many have become atheist after leaving the organization?
Greendawn,
It's not the way the WTS presented god that made me lose all belief in one - it's the way the Bible presents god! If his own book makes god look like a abusive, dysfunctional madman, well, you don't have much to work with!
Oh yes, there was that one other factor - the complete lack of evidence for his existence. I should think that if there was one thing an all-powerful god could do, it would be to prove he's around. I can do it, why can't he?
S4
i have noticed many of my parents friends are slowly passing away.
the daughter of a po told me he became inactive a year before his death because he never thought he would die in this system.
he started smoking and watching porn as well.
Greendawn - I think you're stuck on the same myths the Witnesses are - you are all kidding yourselves by denying that we will all die and go out of existence.
I really struggled with the idea of dying. I think my leaving the Witnesses came out of my hitting my 40s and realizing that, unlike what had been drummed into me for 3 decades, I was in fact going to grow old and die! I have been told by several JWs that the reason they stay in the org is that, while it may be wrong in lots of areas, they can't face life, or death, without the hope of a resurrection. And it is pretty damn comforting when you're grieving over someone you loved, to be told that you'll see them again.
In the 1980s, I gave a talk at several circuit assemblies on the idea of being discouraged by growing old and facing death in this system. Many of the gungho brothers and sisters of my youth were by that time facing death. The district overseer for the assemblies was Dennis Raftopoulis. I privately had a talk with him about growing old and dying, and in an unguarded moment, he told me how discouraging it was for him and others his age, who thought the New System would have been here long ago. Dennis is now dead.
Last week my ex-wife went to Maine to the funeral of Kurt Weimann, an old time elder here in New England and Florida. Kurt was in his early 80s. My mom is 83, and still a JW, and we talk about her dying. My ex in-laws, JWs, are in their 70s and in poor health.
Yep, the one thing we can be certain of is that we will die someday. Growing old is a nice possibility as well!
S4
a bit about myself.. i am 46 yrs olds old, live in chicago area.
i am a dis-fellowshipped jw.
i was in the organization since i was a kid.
Gregg,
Welcome! Former elder and Pioneer here as well. Also divorced after 33 years, and my ex is still a JW.
I'm now with a new partner, the woman with me in my avatar photo.
Been an interesting trip, but I also am much happier in many ways now. It's nice to be able to think and do what I want to.
S4
how many have become atheist after leaving the organization?
Atheist here as well. I think my belief in god went at the same time that my belief in the Bible as from a supernatural source went, and all of that was when I was still a Witness, more or less.
Jaguarbass: You're in an odd place there. It sounds similar to where I found myself for a while - knowing that Genesis was utter nonsense if you tried to take it literally, yet, because of my JW background and years of studying the ideas in the Evolution and Life How Did It Get Here books, I was unable to accept evolution.
At one point I simply decided to research all those questions the Witness literature had raised about evolution. I found really satisfying answers, ones that made complete sense with my own life experiences.
One of the most powerful points for me was reading the comment of the man (his name escapes me at the moment) who has been in charge of he human genome project. Now this guy is a devout evangelical Christian, and to paraphrase him, he stated that if Darwin had decided to invent a body of evidence that would prove evolution beyond a doubt, he couldn't have come up with a better idea than what we find in DNA and the genome project. I can get the direct quote if you'd like.
Also, I've found that using mathematics to "disprove" evolution is a very slippery slope. The odds that a particular person will win Powerball or the lottery are astronomical, but you know what, it happens everyday.
Threestars: Buddhism, like Taoism, is more philosophy than religion, at least that's how they started. They allow you a full belief in science and evolution and have no need of a god. Personally, I would say that taoism has been the biggest influence on my thinking.
S4
i'm not sure if this is old news to you guys but i just heard that the wts is now giving 30mins public talks instead of 45mins public talks.
this new arrangement is starting on jan 2008. i think the wts has seen that the r&f has had enought of all these meetings and is trying to wind them down without it looking like they are giving in.
Yeah, we had the news, as is typical on JWD, long before it was announced last week at the KHalls.There have been several discussions on here about why the change.
S4
ok here's the scenario:.
i'm baptised, not da'd or df'd but 1yr inactive because i'm pretty 200% sure dubdom isn't the truth(tm) - i basicly just left silently.
naturally i do not feel myself bound by their rules of living anymore.
Yeah, they can get you. They actually "created" that rule (associating with a DFed person is grounds for disfellowshipping) in the early 1980s in order to disfellowship Ray Franz. Ray was officially given the boot for having dinner with a DFed Witness.
It all depends on your local elders. That will give them the grounds if they want to get hardassed about it.
S4
it's only my third day here so, go easy on me.
lol.. seriously, my new doubts have made it harder and harder to go in service.
a few months ago, when a new month rolled around, i realized that i hadn't actually gone in service at all the previous month.
Burgertime wrote: "Actually you would be surprised to know Porn Queens do orgasm quite often..if there with the right person, uh but anyways yea I faked it quite a bunch and knew atleast 4 other guys in my Hall that did the same thing."
Ah, Burger, that run-on sentence ends up sounding like you and four other guys in your hall are porn queens who fake it!
S4
it's only my third day here so, go easy on me.
lol.. seriously, my new doubts have made it harder and harder to go in service.
a few months ago, when a new month rolled around, i realized that i hadn't actually gone in service at all the previous month.
JWs fake time reports about as often as porn queens fake orgasms!
You've got to figure that very little is actually accomplished in the work.
I remember the last few months I was a regular Pioneer back in the 1980s. One time over a period of three months, I never talked with anyone at the doors. No one was home.
S4
all of you who play guitar know that it is much harder to play and sing at the same time.
i was just wondering what are some of your favorites covers to do that to?.
heare are some of mine:.
Right now I'm learning:
Halleluja by Leonard Cohen
Kathleen by Josh Ritter
I Don't Believe I'll Ever Get Over You - can't remember the artist, but was on the Garden City soundtrack. Unusual tuning.
And this week I started to learn Somewhere Over the Rainbow. Beautiful song, and was named the greatest song of the 20th Century.
S4
they ran it precisely as written [i believe, though i have not checked it word for word].
in seeker4's original thread he suggested that the catholic settlements could be used as basis for such a letter;.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/138178/2466684/post.ashx#2466684.
My paper doesn't print anonymous letters, nor letters out of the general, immediate area of publication.
S4
