Posts by Seeker4

111

I REALLY DON'T CARE...............................

by Warlock in

i believe in god, but i also realize he may not exist.. if you don't believe in god, i really don't care, i'm just curious.. i don't have this need to start threads like "why you must believe in god", or other such nonsense, but some of you still have this "control" issue that you thought you left in the org.

it seems like you must still try to control what others think.

"think like me, or you are an idiot.

Seeker4

RAF asked: "Now again : Can any SCIENTIST prove that God (again the kind I'm thinking and talking about - and not JW like) Does not existe?"

If you go to my post at the top of page 3, RAF, this is what I wrote: "NO one can say for sure whether god does or does not exist, we all agree to that at the moment - it's just that the TOTAL LACK of evidence makes it reasonable to assume there is no god. At some point a god may decide to reveal itsself. Until then it's a moot point."

Did you not read that before you posted?

How much clearer can I answer your question?? Let me try here, once again as clearly as I possibly can: No one, including scientists, can prove that god does not exist. You can't prove a negative! That's one of the very basic, given concepts of logic.

Acsot: Thanks for trying! I like RAF and her feistiness, but I think there is a huge communication problem. I'm uncertain as to how much is intentional. If you've directed her to accurate information about the definition of these terms in her native language, I find it hard to understand why they continue to be a matter of debate.

S4

32

Jehovah's Witnesses Today & Yesterday

by minimus in

jw
friends

jws today are not like the ones i knew when i was growing up.

we used to look down upon those that didn't make all of the meetings and regularly go out in service every weekend!

if someone was not in the theocratic ministry school----what was wrong with them???

Seeker4

I see the same thing. All the younger Witnesses I know are as familiar with popular culture as any kid in the world. Movies, music, whatever.

My daughter is tall and thin and blond, early 30s, and has never had a problem going out to dance or eat with a short skirt on or a slinky dress and hanging with a bunch of her old high school non-JW friends at some club or party.

The Witnesses are more a social group than a religion to a lot of the young ones. I think to most of them, field service is a joke. I haven't seen my daughter or her husband in the actual field service in a decade. I'm sure they've probably gone, but not much!

S4

111

I REALLY DON'T CARE...............................

by Warlock in

i believe in god, but i also realize he may not exist.. if you don't believe in god, i really don't care, i'm just curious.. i don't have this need to start threads like "why you must believe in god", or other such nonsense, but some of you still have this "control" issue that you thought you left in the org.

it seems like you must still try to control what others think.

"think like me, or you are an idiot.

Seeker4

RAF: Guess what? ... No comment ! ...

No surprise there!

RAF: I have nothing to prove

I couldn't have said it better myself.

S4

111

I REALLY DON'T CARE...............................

by Warlock in

i believe in god, but i also realize he may not exist.. if you don't believe in god, i really don't care, i'm just curious.. i don't have this need to start threads like "why you must believe in god", or other such nonsense, but some of you still have this "control" issue that you thought you left in the org.

it seems like you must still try to control what others think.

"think like me, or you are an idiot.

Seeker4

My comments are in bold.

RAF: Now when it comes to state that God does not exist : Who is the expert really ?

If we consider God to be the creator, it would seem that the people who study the things created would be specialists. In science there is a unified field of thought that can be taught at 100,000 universities and meeting a universal standard. Quite the opposite from religion and those who study the "holy writings."

RAF: "A total lack of evidence ... doesn't tell anything..."

I'm glad you're not a lawyer, and especially glad you're not a courtroom judge! Think about what you just said. Believing something extraordinary, when there is a total lack of evidence to support that belief, is simply a sad, sad commentary on the human condition. That type of thinking should have been shed like a dead skin after the Dark Ages. Unfortunately it continues to thrive worldwide, doing immeasureable damage.

The figures you quoted are quite easy to read - when from a third to a half of scientists don't believe in god, that's 3 to 5 times as many atheists among scientists as in the general population. And that proves nothing one way or another about the existence of god, it simply indicates what some scientists do and do not believe about the existence of god. In a culture where 85% of people claim to be Christian, indicating a belief in god, that difference in belief among scientists is huge.

RAF: You've shown in thread after thread that you have no concept of what a scientific theory is. Easy to state ... I guess you want to believe that

In the thread linked to below, you were seriously taken to school by Abbadon and tetrapod sapien on this concept of a scientific theory. All the evidence is there, for anyone who wants to wade through it.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/129048/2285368/post.ashx#2285368

LTF: BRAVO Raff! I may not agree with your theories, but I appreciate that you won't allow yourself to be treated like a doormat!

Completely agree with that. Here's a place where we can openly debate ideas, which is a wonderful, wonderful thing. I'm really not trying to treat RAF like a doormat, but her constant misuse and misapplication of the concept of a scientific theory is frustrating and journalistically dishonest. It's the same technique the WTS used, the sad 'it's only a theory' concept you hear touted again and again by JWs, creationists, fundamentalists and the like. They present it like it's some great insight, when in truth it's like hanging a sign around your neck saying "I'm a scientific nincompoop!" There is no quicker way to get yourself labeled as scientifically ignorant than to say to a group of scientists, "Evolution is only a theory and there is no proof for it."

For anyone not blinded by fundamental religious dogma, there is simply no excuse for that type of dishonest use of words. I learned to despise that kind of twisted, Creation Book use of language as I was leaving the WTS. As a journalist, I feel more strongly about it than ever. Words have tremendous power, as we know. When they are misused, or used unethically, I see it as a bad thing. I've given RAF the benefit of the doubt about how she writes about scientific theories, because English is obviously a struggle for her, but I've seen her misuse this idea over and over, despite being directed to the actual definitions of this specific scientific term. That seems to make no difference.

Believe in god if you want. I really have no problem with that. Just carry on the discussion honestly and be willing to do a little background research.

S4

111

I REALLY DON'T CARE...............................

by Warlock in

i believe in god, but i also realize he may not exist.. if you don't believe in god, i really don't care, i'm just curious.. i don't have this need to start threads like "why you must believe in god", or other such nonsense, but some of you still have this "control" issue that you thought you left in the org.

it seems like you must still try to control what others think.

"think like me, or you are an idiot.

Seeker4

RAF,

IQ refers to a standardized international test that measures certain aspects of intellect with 100 being average intelligence. It's pretty well known. It only tests certain languge and cognitive skills. I understand that there are several different kinds of intelligence NOT measured by an IQ test.

Would I be influenced by someone with a high IQ? Perhaps in some ways, in the same way that I might pay more attention about how to succeed in business from a Donald Trump as opposed to Joe Blow down the street who has never run a successful business.

This has nothing to do with following someone - it's just logical to listen to people who have proven they know what they are talking about. When I want to learn something, I look for experts to help me. I don't become their follower, I just want to benefit from their expertise. That's the smart thing to do.

So, when I want to learn about this world I live in, I often turn to the people who are studying it most deeply and many of them are scientists. Interestingly, the majority of scientists have a good deal of education and higher than average IQs. Hmmm.. imagine that. Does that make them a better source of information? Not necessarily, but it would probably be the smart way to bet!!

NO one can say for sure whether god does or does not exist, we all agree to that at the moment - it's just that the TOTAL LACK of evidence makes it reasonable to assume there is no god. At some point a god may decide to reveal itsself. Until then it's a moot point. The BIG QUESTION is hardly a question at all. Does the Bible god exist has as much importance as Does the Spaghetti Monster exist, at this point. I consider that someone who worships god is using just about as much logic and reasoning ability as the person worshipping the Great Spaghetti Monster.

Again, if you read Mary's link, you'd see that it supports what I said - MORE scientists are likely to call themselves atheist by a factor of 2 or 3 over the average population. Again, I'll repeat for you, an atheist is not in any way saying that they can prove that god doesn't exist. That is simply the logical conclusion considering the lack of evidence.

Finally, when you wrote "(a fact is a fact, a not proved theory is a not proved theory and an opinion is an opinion)" - well, I'm just not going to deal with that again. You've shown in thread after thread that you have no concept of what a scientific theory is. Perhaps it's a language problem, but it is very hard to respect someone writing about what scientists think or don't think, when that person doesn't even understand the basic concept of scientific theories. There must be a few science books written for the layman in French. You need to take the time to read a couple.

S4

106

REALLY Think about it before you post

by avidbiblereader in

there is a lot of threads going back and forth both ways, almost like a battle line has been drawn between believers and atheists.

however, let's just say for the sake of argument, that all religions including the witnesses, are wrong but the bible in itself is right.. everything that it has foretold is going to happen and just as god told noah, in 7 more days i am going to make it rain, but this time he now speaks to all of us and says in just 7 more days i will wipe the earth clean of all those who have or are revolting/disagree against me.. how would you react then?

how would you live your next 7 days?

Seeker4

You mean the old fart FINALLY shows his face! Awesome. Except of course, he's the same old bastard as ever, screaming, "Agree with me or I'll kill you!!"

That bully god is the one I'm sick of. I'd spend the next 7 days saying goodby to the people I love, probably wouldn't go to work, and would have a nice final week of my life. Lots of sex, I would imagine, good food with family and friends, and I'd spend what little money I had left!

Better off ending life than spending an eternity of it with a madman like that.

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32

WHY BARB DID WHAT SHE DID.

by seven006 in

i posted this explanation on my old buddy outlaws thread, barbara read it, sent me a pm, and asked me to post this all over the internet because she wanted people to know why she produced the cd.

ya,.. sure barb, like little bit of flattery will get me to become a cut and paste monkey..again.

not this time you evil breaker of watchtower balls.

Seeker4

stillin'74,

For most of my adult life, I would have said that I would NEVER leave the Witnesses.

I'm glad that changed and I did - but it's not easy.

S4

9

Do the Governing Body members do door-to-door field service?

by R.F. in

those of you that have been around the gb members on a regular basis, do they actually do the door-to-door work themselves, or do they mainly count the talks they give as their field service time?

Seeker4

I once took Carey Barber and his wife out in field service. They said it had been months since they'd gone door to door, and asked if we had an return visits we could take them on!

I don't believe that that is unusual among the Bethel heavies. Some may go door to door at times, but it's not like they're doing more, or even as much, as a typical brother.

S4

111

I REALLY DON'T CARE...............................

by Warlock in

i believe in god, but i also realize he may not exist.. if you don't believe in god, i really don't care, i'm just curious.. i don't have this need to start threads like "why you must believe in god", or other such nonsense, but some of you still have this "control" issue that you thought you left in the org.

it seems like you must still try to control what others think.

"think like me, or you are an idiot.

Seeker4

Statistics are hard to come by, but what I was able to find is this:

Active atheists comprise about 10% of the population (one figure I saw was as low as 4%), while the number of people who simply profess no belief in god, whether they've actively come to that conclusion or not, is around 20%. These figures are far from complete, as 85% of the population in the US considers themselves Christian!

In the figures that Mary linked to, on average, about 33% of scientists are outright atheist, and in some sciences, like biology, it may be as much as 50%, which supports exactly what I was saying. Among scientists, you are 3 to 5 times as likely not to believe in god than among the population in general.

Thanks for the link, Mary.

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28

A call to HQ about the settlement

by parlay in

i called hq under this guise: i am an interested person who has two jw'svisiting me periodically.

i think they are very nice people and we have good conversations,but recently something disturbed me.

i was suprised that they had no knowledge of the recent lawsuit settlements and actually denied it was true.

Seeker4

What's the number?

S4