Min,
The point I'm trying to make in that scenario is not that this person/elder did this just once. Exactly the opposite - that if accused of an incident, the pedophile, in the past, could say it was years ago, just the once, and his life gives evidence that Jehovah has forgiven him.
He would of course be lying - I was just pointing out that WTS policy at the time would make it easy for a pedophile elder to continue his abuse, at least in some circumstances.
I also think that there will be elders viewed as pedophiles and removed as in H_S 's experience, who were "just" inappropriate with an older teenager. I'm sure no other men on here have ever had less than pure thoughts about an underage teenager!
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Seeker4
JoinedPosts by Seeker4
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Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
by Seeker4 inok, i had initially intended on commenting on two things in barbara's commentary in another thread, that combined, make for an interesting scenario for jw pedophiles - then i was distracted by a question from purps, and decided i'd use this comment to start a new thread.
that is a hell of an avatar pic, by the way, purp.
if you're half as cute as that smile you're wearing, you must be quiet a heartbreaker!
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Seeker4
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Any thoughts on "Secrets of Pedophilia in an American Religion"?
by restrangled ini received my copy at noon today and have just now had to quit reading.
i was appalled at the lengths the wtbs has gone to protect themselves in court.
especially in their objections to handing over documentation.
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Seeker4
The main WTS lawyer in this case was Jewish and not a JW.
Whether or not to include things like the medical records and such on the CD was debated. Considering that the defense lawyer put them into evidence in order to show the devastating effect of the abuse, it was decided to also include them on the CD, for similar reasons.
In the WTS's defense, it of course had the right to defend itself in court. What I think is damning in all of this, is to what extent they went to protect themselves and escape responsibility.
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Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
by Seeker4 inok, i had initially intended on commenting on two things in barbara's commentary in another thread, that combined, make for an interesting scenario for jw pedophiles - then i was distracted by a question from purps, and decided i'd use this comment to start a new thread.
that is a hell of an avatar pic, by the way, purp.
if you're half as cute as that smile you're wearing, you must be quiet a heartbreaker!
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Seeker4
The three year rule came out of comments in the Organization book or it's predecessor. Essentially it asked if a brother should report a serious sin he'd committed years before, and answered it by saying if some time had passed and the brother saw evidence of Jehovah's blessing in his life, he wouldn't need to.
Later, a KM answered a question about what sort of time frame was meant, and they stated the 2-3 year period.
Even though it's a policy that has been modified, it is still having repercussions
And I also think that a lot of brothers in situations similar to what H_S mentioned were let slide in past years. I know a brother who slept with his teenaged stepdaughter, and later served as an elder. Many years later under the new policy he was removed and he eventually left the JWs.
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Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
by Seeker4 inok, i had initially intended on commenting on two things in barbara's commentary in another thread, that combined, make for an interesting scenario for jw pedophiles - then i was distracted by a question from purps, and decided i'd use this comment to start a new thread.
that is a hell of an avatar pic, by the way, purp.
if you're half as cute as that smile you're wearing, you must be quiet a heartbreaker!
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Seeker4
V: "Seeker4: chatting up avatars on a paedophilia topic is a bit creepy, eh?"
Oh, me bad....
Tried to come up with one, (an excuse) but you're right.
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Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
by Seeker4 inok, i had initially intended on commenting on two things in barbara's commentary in another thread, that combined, make for an interesting scenario for jw pedophiles - then i was distracted by a question from purps, and decided i'd use this comment to start a new thread.
that is a hell of an avatar pic, by the way, purp.
if you're half as cute as that smile you're wearing, you must be quiet a heartbreaker!
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Seeker4
HS: Yeah, I was still in when that change took place. Do you know if it has been somewhat distilled? I started a thread on here a week or so ago about the elders calling me maybe 10 years ago asking if I would be upset if my son's abuser were appointed as a servant. You can probably find the thread easily.
The scenario I wrote about, though, was in place for many years, perhaps close to 20, and I think it led to some serious problems, as Barbara mentions.
stilla: (Lovely avatar, by the way. You know how to pick them!) Yes. We tend to think of child abusers as these lechers hanging around playgrounds with trenchcoats and three day stubble. Far from it. They are often shy and kind, likeable, vulnerable, avuncular - quite the opposite of what one would assume. One of the most likeable, spiritual brothers I knew, he was an elder and the assembly overseer from one of my earliest circuits, turned out to have been screwing LOTS of little girls in his congregation in the Ballston Spa, NY area in the 1970s. It was a scandalous case and made the headlines, for sure. I'll post his name if I can remember it. This was a brother everyone thought was an angel on earth.
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The warm and fuzzy, snuggly, cuddly thread.
by nicolaou inokay i felt a bit sick typing out that title but having been a wee bit 'prickly' in my last few threads i thought i might try this on for size - not sure how well it's going to suit me.. what makes you feel content?
at peace and restful?.
i just spent the last couple of hours reading in my recliner.
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Seeker4
Mmmmmm...scotch, book, David Gray CD, dog, wife, daughter...........
I'm getting all fuzzy and snuggly just thinking about it!
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Any thoughts on "Secrets of Pedophilia in an American Religion"?
by restrangled ini received my copy at noon today and have just now had to quit reading.
i was appalled at the lengths the wtbs has gone to protect themselves in court.
especially in their objections to handing over documentation.
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Seeker4
I started to comment on this, then got distracted by Purplesofa's avatar, oops, I mean her question about lawyers. Then I decided to start a new thread about a couple of the ideas mentioned in Barbara's CD, here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/140526/1.ashx.
You might find it interesting.
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Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
by Seeker4 inok, i had initially intended on commenting on two things in barbara's commentary in another thread, that combined, make for an interesting scenario for jw pedophiles - then i was distracted by a question from purps, and decided i'd use this comment to start a new thread.
that is a hell of an avatar pic, by the way, purp.
if you're half as cute as that smile you're wearing, you must be quiet a heartbreaker!
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Seeker4
OK, I had initially intended on commenting on two things in Barbara's commentary in another thread, that combined, make for an interesting scenario for JW pedophiles - then I was distracted by a question from Purps, and decided I'd use this comment to start a new thread. That is a hell of an avatar pic, by the way, Purp. If you're half as cute as that smile you're wearing, you must be quiet a heartbreaker! And what kind of a name is Purplesofa?? Why not Browncouch? Or Stainedsettee?? Lavenderloveseat???
Anyway - there is this interesting situation of the "three year rule," the "evidence" of Jehovah's forgiveness, and JW pedophiles that Barbara mentions on the CD.
A brother can have committed a serious sin, and if it's been a few years, and the brother's life gives evidence that he's been forgiven by Jehovah, the elders don't necessarily have to be told about the sin, and if they are, they don't necessarily have to deal with it. Barbara discusses this "three year rule" in her commentary, and I remember well when it first came out in WTS literature.
So, we have this kind of scenario: A beloved elder is accused of sexually touching a child. It is years later, when they have the maturity and the courage, that the now adult victim tells the elders. The pedophile elder then admits that, in a moment of weakness, he was inappropriate with the child, but he was deeply troubled and it never happened again. He's asked Jehovah for forgiveness. The body looks at his record of years of faithful service, assembly parts, auxiliary pioneering, etc., and all they see is evidence of the Holy Spirit in his life. Obviously, in their eyes, Jehovah has forgiven him. Considering it has been years since the abuse, and he's produced such good fruits, the elders can just let sleeping dogs lie. (Pun intended!)
What's wrong with this scenario? The elders assume that the good conduct and seeming blessings the pedophile elder has in his life are evidence of Jehovah's forgiveness and blessing - when the reality is that anyone can behave in such a way as to seem to be blessed by god. He's got some social skills, so he gives good talks. He's smart so he can give what sounds like righteous counsel to those in need. He puts down 15 to 20 hours a month on his time report no matter what, so he seems to be doing better that way than most of the rest of the elders. He kisses ass and has some ability, so he gets privileges. He's a model elder in so many ways.
In other words, anyone can create the circumstances in their life that makes it look like they are god's special little darling in the eyes of JW elders who think that anyone wicked like a true pedophile would end up being revealed to the congregation by Jehovah. The elders are trusting in the help of someone - Jehovah - and something - the Holy Spirit - which aren't really there!
So a clever pedophile, especially one who could move from congregation to congregation every few years (which in itself could be looked at as an example of his spirituality - "see, he's always moving to help out a new congregation!!"), could in fact have abused dozens or hundreds of children over the years. If here and there some child or former victim comes forward, he can use the three year rule, his contriteness and evidence of forgiveness, and what body of elders wouldn't fooled by the "evidence" that this elder has holy spirit in his life.
The sad thing is that this is not just a hypothetical - these sort of situations actually happened.
These are some of my thoughts about the evidence that Barbara discovered in the court documents.
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Any thoughts on "Secrets of Pedophilia in an American Religion"?
by restrangled ini received my copy at noon today and have just now had to quit reading.
i was appalled at the lengths the wtbs has gone to protect themselves in court.
especially in their objections to handing over documentation.
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Seeker4
Bethel has a legal department with its own lawyers. I haven't looked into this deeply enough to know whether or not all the lawyers in these cases were JWs.
I remember the attorney who was posting here. Not sure just what his JW status was. Oribrous?? Something like that.
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Calling all ELDERS
by The Oracle inif you are an elder who frequents this site, please let me know.. i am trying to connect (completely anonymously - your privacy is assured) with as many elders as i can.
i know that there are hundreds of elders in the same position as myself (have had our awakening and have come to realize that "the truth" is a sham).. i encourage you to continue to serve as an elder and for you to work together with other like minded elders as a collective force for true good.
there is much we can do from the inside to help the cause.. there are thousands and indeed millions of kind and honest hearted people whose only crime is that they have allowed themselves to be deceived and are still active jws.
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Fahr:
It's mentioned here, http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/139179/2487229/post.ashx#2487229
and you can find better threads about it if you want.
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