Dave and Min - When I was writing that, I figured there'd be a couple of the "slower" ones here on the board who'd think she'd actually called me Seeker4, or that she might be a lurker! Should have known it would be you two.
I was a remarkably ugly child, and failed to recover as I grew older. It was a lonely existence until the advent of the Internet and I discovered the "Hot Women Who Love Unusually Ugly Guys" websites. Since then, life has been good.
I'm not sure if folks like that would ever do anything as far as leaving the WTS. I could forsee a few future events that might move them to step outside the WTS box. I think, no matter how smart some people are, and this woman is a way above average serious thinker, that the culture of being a JW makes it too hard to think about leaving.
I just spent a week with an old friend whose sister is one of the artists you taught at Bethel, Dave. She's a smart woman, but as her brother told me, she'll never really talk about any of the things that concern her. Far too much invested in Bethel taking care of them as they approach retirement age to now start rocking the boat.
S4 (not my real initials!)
Seeker4
JoinedPosts by Seeker4
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38
Elder's Wife Apologizes In Tears for Shunning Me Yesterday
by Seeker4 inhad a really interesting experience i thought some here might like to hear about.
my jw ex-wife and i still own a house together, (she lives in it and a non-jw adult son is living there with her temporarily), not to mention the three kids and seven grandkids we share, so we interact quite a bit, e-mailing, calling or seeing each other a few times a week or so.
i'm still doing some remodeling to our house.
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Seeker4
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30
so are there really co's and elders who are undercover appostates???
by newly unsure inso are there really co's and elders who are undercover appostates??
?
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Seeker4
In 2006 I started this thread: "Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??" and in that thread, which got like 10,000 hits and hundreds of responses over several days, a number of lurking elders posted for the first time.
I know for a fact that some active elders have posted on this site. I also know that it's much more likely for them to come here after stepping down, which is what I did. There are lots of ex-elders and ex-Bethelites on here.
I have an old CO friend who talked with me extensively after I faded from the JWs. He was then a congregation elder, and I posted a LONG account of our talk on the old H2O. He was easily as disillusioned about the WTS as I was, but remained an elder in the hopes that he could be of some help to the friends.
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38
Elder's Wife Apologizes In Tears for Shunning Me Yesterday
by Seeker4 inhad a really interesting experience i thought some here might like to hear about.
my jw ex-wife and i still own a house together, (she lives in it and a non-jw adult son is living there with her temporarily), not to mention the three kids and seven grandkids we share, so we interact quite a bit, e-mailing, calling or seeing each other a few times a week or so.
i'm still doing some remodeling to our house.
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Seeker4
Had a really interesting experience I thought some here might like to hear about.
My JW ex-wife and I still own a house together, (she lives in it and a non-JW adult son is living there with her temporarily), not to mention the three kids and seven grandkids we share, so we interact quite a bit, e-mailing, calling or seeing each other a few times a week or so. I'm still doing some remodeling to our house. Also, she had a foot operation a couple of weeks ago, and I've stopped by almost every day to help with the dog, get my ex a meal or do things that need to be done, especially the first week or so after the operation.
I was there Sunday afternoon, and she told me that an elder and his wife were doing some shopping for her, and would be dropping the food off. Now this elder and I were best friends from our pre-teen days, his parents were like a mom and dad to me, and I helped train him as an elder and we served together for decades. We vacationed several times with them, and were part of their wedding party.
My truck was parked in front of the house, and I figured they would realize that I was there, though when I think about it, hell, I don't know what kind of vehicle they drive, why should they know that about mine?
Anyway, they stop by, and my son lets them in. The husband, "Ed", stays in the kitchen talking to my son, while his wife, "Tina," comes into the living room where my ex and I are talking. She talks to my wife, and avoids looking at me or acknowledging me in any way. I'm polite, stand there and just listen to the conversation, but make no effort to "disappear." Hey, I own the house! This is the second time I've been shunned in my own house, (the last time, a few weeks ago, from a JW that I used to talk to when she was Dfed!!) and it grates on me, but I'm getting used to it.
After a few minutes they head out, and Ed, my elder friend, smiles and winks at me as they leave. I don't remember him saying anything, but he acknowledged me in his way. A minute later, I see Tina heading back into the house, and I tell my son, who lets her in. I'm still in the living room talking to my ex, who wonders out loud if Tina is coming back because there was something missed when they brought in the food.
Just then Tina walks into the living room, tears running down her cheeks. "Seeker4, I've got something to say to you," she said.
I'm calm, but a bit concerned, half expecting her to blast me for leaving the Witnesses and leaving my wife, and to have her call me a few choice names as she told me what a disappointment I was to everyone. It was far from that.
"I want to apologize to you, S4," she said, obviously deeply distressed. "It was really rude of me to to ignore you like that and I feel awful for doing it."
That isn't word-for-word, but it's the gist of what she said. I stood watching her, very calm, my hands in my pockets. I glance over at my wife, and we have this sympathetic look for Tina that passes between us. Tina explained that she was caught off guard by my being there, and didn't know how to act.
Then, Tina repeats it again, how sorry she is for being rude. "I appreciate that, Tina," I told her. "Please say hi to Ed for me." Then she left.
I was deeply touched by her actions, and I've been pondering them. I think I was watching someone break down in a way from trying to maintain a cognitive dissonance about JW shunning. I mean, there she was, this old friend, standing not five feet from me, and feeling that, to obey the dictates of the WTS, she had to ignore me in my own home, in front of my son even.
This kind, intelligent woman, to be a "good" JW, had to be rude to an old friend in a way that she wouldn't normally act toward someone she hated! That action made her break down when she left the house. It was completely contrary to both her nature and to common decency, not to mention the basic tenets of Jesus' teachings.
Ed and Tina are lifelong JWs, and I doubt that they will ever leave the organization, but I imagine that there are times when deep in their hearts they really question what the WTS has taught them and requires of them.
It touched my heart to see they were willing to embrace a moment of true humanity and compassion, despite the dictates of the Org.
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If you believe in Evolution then your a fool! God really is REAL!
by Blackboo inhere are some questions evolution never bring up or will evade questioning.
these are serious questions that kill all the silly beliefs about how the earth or universe got here..and here is why.
think about this for a second we would not be here if nothing for all existence did not exist.
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Seeker4
Haven't yet been able to read all of these posts, but isn't Blackboo like the thousandth person who has posted denouncing evolution, with a post fraught with spelling and grammar errors??
What's with that? Blackboo, don't insult others' intelligence before you run spellcheck, my friend!
THEN, Blackboo's questions about evolution end up having nothing to do with evolution, proving he/she has never darkened the door of a science classroom.
Glad to see a few of the better minds on here seem to have taken Blackboo to task. When will people learn not to argue a subject they know nothing about?
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30
CORMAC MCCARTHY may well be my favorite writer
by Terry in) never read fiction.. personal reasons.
i use to read a lot of fiction as a teenager, but, gave it up.
i had enough to do rearing 7 kids and having to indulge in life to make the trade-off of time required to keep up with fiction.. now, there has come an author who has stopped me dead in my tracks and changed all that and his name is cormac mccarthy.. he is some kind of genius with quirky style and a bottomless vocabulary and a penchant for storytelling that won't let me escape.. i first heard of mccarthy by reading the literary critic, harold bloom.
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Seeker4
Terry, good suggestion. I've known about McCarthy and the fact that he is a genius writer for some time. My first attempt at reading him was a bit off putting. There was something like a sentence with over 100 words and little or no punctuation, and I thought it was a "look at me, look at how clever I am" trick. I had trouble going on after that. But...
I know better now.
You might also want to check out Jim Harrison (perhaps my favorite writer) and Michael Chabon, two other extraordinary writers.
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BIG NEWS!
by deaconbluez ini have been approved to write the cover story for local newspaper about jehovah's witnesses.
it can't be any more than 2,500 words.
this newspaper has a huge reader-base.
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Seeker4
Congrats.
I'm a newspaper editor, and I'd like to make a couple of suggestions:
1. Be as even handed as possible. Start with some positive things so it doesn't seem as though you have an axe to grind. Making this a sour grapes, "get the JWs" piece will backfire.
2. The JWs have bragged for years about their rate of growth, and you might mention how impressive that has been in the past, but use it as a segue into problems that have slowed JW growth in the last decade, and led to hundreds of thousands leaving. Generation change, view of education, UN NGO thing, blood issue, failure of ANY of its prophecies to come true.
3. Use quotes from outside sources: JWs and ex-JWs. Former elders or Bethelites can often provide intelligent, highly readable quotes about how they became disillusioned with the WT and decided to leave.
4. Your word length is great for a paper, so you've got room to do some real writing. Yet, don't try to cover too much territory. Stick with stuff that people in general might appreciate - not some obscure point that might only be understood by a hardline JW.
5. NEVER sound angry or vindictive. JWs EXPECT all former JWs to be bitter, angry and spiteful. Avoid that at all costs. Sound beneficent, calm, reasoned and intelligent.
I'd be glad to help in any way I can. PM me. This is a great opportunity for a lot of people to hear the truth about JWs.
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8
2 minute Video called "The God Who Wasn't There"
by skyking invery thought provoking.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kubqguclxzk.
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Seeker4
Hey Skyking! How you doing, buddy?
This is a clip from a full length documentary that is really well done. You can rent it. I loved it!
S4
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New Bethel layoffs confirmed - we get our very own "special" pioneers!
by sir82 inhighlights from a recent letter addressed to our boe:.
-- a married couple is leaving bethel, assigned to serve in our congregation as special pioneers.
-- the society will pay them $600 per month, and in addition cover their health insurance .
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Seeker4
Several years ago I had friends who had been working on the Patterson building project for five years. At the end of that time, Bethel was really pushing a lot of the workers to consider making Bethel life their "career." This couple talked it over and decided that's what they would do.
Literally a couple of months later the Patterson project was winding down, and with no construction work, hundreds of these couples were asked to leave, including my friends!
To say that this couple was a bit disillusioned is putting it mildly. This current round of layoffs at Bethel will just create more ill will.
Good.
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Seeker4
No. I was around in 1975, but wasn't really expecting it then. Just sort of curious about it.
There was always something not quite right about thinking that The End was very close.
It was very obvious to me that we were a long, long way from anything resembling a fulfillment of Mt. 24:14. There were certain territories in say, California, that were being covered every month, while billions of people, by far the majority of Earth's population, had NEVER heard of JWs or talked to one.
On that basis alone I knew the end, if there were really such a thing, was a long, long way off.
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Barbara Anderson's Comments from her CD compilation now online!
by Dogpatch inbarbara anderson's comments from her cd compilation:.
secrets of pedophilia in an american religionjehovah's witnesses in crisis.
update 1/17/08: barbara anderson has released her nearly 100-page commentary found on the cd, secrets of pedophilia in an american religion, jehovah's witnesses in crisis, for general distribution.
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Seeker4
Barbara & Joe,
Glad things are working out, and glad this info is being used to help other attorneys in cases against the WTS.
I got your e-mail, and apologize for not responding. I've been working on a few other projects that I've needed to focus on and get wrapped up.
In two days I'm headed to Florida to spend a week with an old friend. He's related to the Spatz' at Bethel - he's Eunice's brother. I knew them well, and as you and I have talked, Michael St. Jean I knew when he was an elder in my old circuit.
Thanks again for all your work.
S4