the exclamation mark in the title above is because i was surprised, as i know that i am a "do not call", but this was what i presume were now two elders,(i have not been told their present status), so they reckon they are equipped to handle me, lol.
it was a friendly chat, as i knew the guys for decades.. during the course of our chat i was able to lead them towards jwfacts.com, i did this by a circuitous route which i will not bore you with, but right at the end i said that bro russell had said no matter what the source of truth was, it was still truth.. i am hoping they do not fear going to the site, i also pointed out that paul grundy says if anything is wrong on his site, e-mail him and he will correct it.. i did get a couple of digs in, said the gb were now like rock stars, one guy said "i don't think they would like you calling them that", so i said " o.k, tv evangelists then".
he had no reply to that barb !.
" Being friendly, polite, and amicable allows them to let down their guard and perhaps really "hear" what you're saying. " totally agree, regardless of being the right thing to do as well.
Although , I must admit , inducing cognitive dissonance in self righteous pioneers is something I do gladly for free ^^
this what the jdubs are now talking about in my area .
" the Catholics are not terrorizing the rest of the world , committing barbarous acts against innocent people everywhere .Yet Muslims do ." Very interesting sentence .
Interesting to note thought ,
The Catholic religion came to be adopted by the masses NOT by option but exactly by committing barbarous acts against innocent people as most religions
The Catholic Religion was in favour of recent military incursions in which barbarous acts against innocent people were committed under the "war on terror" "democracy" or "greedy bastards that want to be more rich"
To me , all religions that came to my attention are and do the same, for they do not demand humans but DRONES
JW witness bash Catholics most maybe because they know deep down that they descend from them and want to be apart from them. Christianity
Take care
i'm not jw, so i see this all standing up and very clear from an outsider perspective (i am still seeking my path).
i joined the blog a few weeks ago.
i dated a divorced jw (jw from birth) for a couple of years recently.
Although it may sound right, mass exodus wouldn't work because in my opinion people believe what they want to believe not the truth, so would be hard to "impose" truth (even if REAL truth) upon those that REFUSE it or are not ready to leave. If enforced , most people , out of fear /solitude or whatever would just join another cult.
Regarding uniting all sites under one only or even under a "leader" would be the quickest way to dismantle this whole effort , since these types of organizations are easily corrupted, and soon , you find that the "leader" is changing his tune / trying to impose "his" truth, etc. Could be otherwise , I doubt it .
For me , way things are going is the way to go. The more sites exposing the truth , more INDEPENDENT vehicle's of information exist.
Although I have profound respect for you for having researched in to these issues in order to have an informed opinion , and because you are here proposing solutions, I disagree that "we" don't do anything" , based on the "1000 s" sites and content available today, that did NOT exist when I needed.
The first step is informing ppl , what many are doing today , but surely more can be done to pressure government to END TAX EXCEPTION for ex.
Kudos for proposing solutions , for is what we can do all
Take Care
i have been perplexed as to how to brung my wife out of jws and to exit the religion... but i had an idea last night.
i know that elders will legitimantly meet with brothers who have doubts and encourage them... not df them .. this is a sheperding call etc.. thus since my wife knows i have doubt s i could say: i want to have two brother over to discuss this ... she will agree.... of course i will hit these guys with biblical textual issues, an biology to where they are stunned and still ask... "so brothers... can you solve this conflict...?".
in this case they will not think of me as an apostate but may question their own beliefs... .
Can I for a sec correct you statement? " I know that elders will legitimantly meet with brothers who have doubts and encourage them" to " I know that elders will legitimantly meet with brothers who have doubts and SILENCE them"
As others have already said this is a game that can have many outcomes depending on your preparation / the elders preparation, but I can guarantee one thing - they wont say you are right.
IF they see you with FOUNDED doubts, and notes, they may change the tune to DF you on the next min and "invite you " for a further meeting in the KH.
IF they see you without founded doubts or notes , they will BS theyre "truth" away, you will become "dangerous" within the org, and a process is internally initiated ( this is a corporation), that either ends with you asking forgiveness and being a "GOOD" witness or DF
Ive seen it over and over again.
When I called someone at my house to talk , I had the end of the conversation already in mind, regardless of what they could say, and that worked fine to me .Hope it helps
Take Care
watchtower 6/15/1953 pg 371 though their annual periods were not calculated to the fraction of the day, there was no mistaking the seasons of the year, since jehovah had said, while the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.gen.
although jehovah's witnesses believe that paradise earth will remain forever, why does there own watchtower library 2014 software state otherwise?.
original word: part of speech: substantive; adverb accusative; adverb.
Genesis 8:22 , as well as sumerian mythology, in my opinion give us ignorant /false information because:
Our sun, as our main star, will evolve, and one day his increase in brightness will STOP photosynthesis , the base of seedtime and harvest.
Without plants how can THERE BE seedtime and harvest ?
either we can reason or just "God did it" and move on lol
Take Care
i could not find mention of this before.
i was reading genesis 8:22 in the niv and was surprised i had never noticed that this verse gives the impression that the earth will not remain forever.
genesis 8:22 stated by god after the flood, when promising to never again destroy all living creatures.. as long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will never cease.
I believe since Gilgamesh Epics around 2100 B.C. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh) Religions "adjust / change" whatever they need in order to get whatever "interpretation" they want.
All the references regarding Earth lasting forever just demonstrate some degree of ignorance from the ones that have written it, because : the sun is a main sequence star as many others in this great universe in which nothing is eternal.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun)
I personally think "inspired people" would KNOW THIS , since now 12 year olds with smartphone do. lol
“They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as truth, rather than truth as authority.”
Take Care
i started my fade a the beginning of 2015, took counseling form a psychiatrist, and worked hard to get my family away from the cult.
my marriage split and i now live alone with my 15 year old daughter.. she came to me last night and we started talking about jws.
she told me that the subject they are discussing at the moment in philosophy is "cults".
My sincere congrats to your daughter , and to you that have provided the best start possible by " worked hard to get my family away from the cult".
You have good reasons to be proud of her.
Haaa the Glorious days when children, knowledge in hand become immune to this disease called religions.
No wonder the J.W. are not very apt in dealing with these ...erm ... realities called Information Age.
Take Care
how far / deep was your research on the origins of the bible or religions or most importantly the concepts (heaven -gods - immortality-etc)today many millions of people believe as the truth?.
why did these concepts existed ?.
why so many people today still believe in these concepts ?.
How far / deep was your research on the Origins of the Bible or Religions or most importantly the concepts (heaven -Gods - immortality-etc)today many millions of people believe as the truth?
Why did these concepts existed ?
Why so many people today still believe in these concepts ?
I strongly believe the opinions we have change, depending on the info we have in that subject at that time , so please share your opinion, and provide references if possible, so may I too learn something.
I will Kickstart
After reading the bible in more than one language, ended at Pyramid texts in Egypt Mythology (2400-2300 BC) and Epic of Gilgamesh in Sumerian Mythology(+ - 2100 BC) Wikipedia provides info on those subjects.
These were the fist written descriptions i found, read and analysed regarding immortality, hell/heaven, good/evil, God-like creatures or attributes/ resurrection / serpents and everything else
I think people were trying to understand and explain the world
I think its because they never researched were they came from, many are confused by the many religions that use those concepts in their "upgraded" versions of the Pyramid texts and Gilgamesh Epics ( Bible/Torah/Quran/Hindu writings/etc)
Take Care
just a little disclaimer: english isn't my first language (i'm from france) thus the poor writing skills.here is the situation: i'm not a jw.
however, i'm in the process of becoming one.
in fact, i'm studying with the jw's, and i'll proceed to become an unbaptized publisher as soon as i finish the first book.to make a long story short i was introduced to the truth when i was 18een.
Bonsoir Esmeralda ^^
You seem a well put together person. Just keep in mind that getting baptized is the same as getting in to a mud pool. It wont come off that easy. The people you think are your friends will turn they're face on you as soon as you start to think for yourself.
As someone that as well has studied and worked simultaneously I sympathize with your cause, Are you the type of person that likes to be told to do stupid and irrational things all the time without right to questions ? if so go ahead, if not get out, and make friends, REAL friends that like you for who you are , not what you believe in.
Take care of yourself because if you don't , nobody will
A toute
i know im young.
i know i still have so much to learn i mean im only 14 but but even at a young age i have learned and i know what love is.
this is where the problem comes in.
Hello Alex , and congratulations for informing yourself before making decisions .Although you say you are 14 you act as a lot older.My advice to you is continue to inform yourself, so you can achieve what you want : Be happy.
Be aware , that , with your thinking mind , you are a menace to any organization that demands blind obedience, As you are only 14 you cant just move in with her or support her, and ATM , her parents decide.
BE SMART. Make your own luck. Get into a gym , Study hard, and get the best job you can. Then , if that girl is still your dream girl, fight for her without going against her parents, they love her very much , but are blinded.
All the best
