Very good points, I 100% agree. These elders are not appointed by God's Holy Spirit.. They're appointed by other men in the cong/org/GB..
Posts by raven
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16Today's Text - Show Appreciation For Elders! LOL
by Divergent inwednesday, august 10. holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of god.—acts 20:28.. it is important that we show appreciation for god’s arrangement for shepherding his flock.
christian elders are a provision from jehovah, who always acts in our best interests.
the elders are “like a hiding place from the wind, a place of concealment from the rainstorm, like streams of water in a waterless land, like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land.” (isa.
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raven
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63
I've had enough..
by raven inso last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?
i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?
quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!
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raven
SADELDER-
Are you an ex-elder? Do you know any past experiences similar this situation? Especially as far as sending letters go?
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Openly converting to another religion but not disfellowshipped
by R Franz Ferdinand III inodd.... friends of mine recently became members of an evangelical church.. up until they got baptised in this church, they still were visiting the jw meetings on a regular basis.they weren't really fading in the true sense of the word.. they came out of the closet about their new conviction quite publicly and even didn't shy away from getting in debate with the elders on biblical topics.. the elders are obviously very aware about their position and as they still were attending the meetings not so long ago, they clearly can be considered as people associated with the jw organisation.. as far as i know it seems they won't get disfellowshipped.
as long my friends don't harrass fellow witnesses with their 'renegade ideas' and 'false religion', elders seem to comply and leave things as they are.. this puzzles me as defecting to babylon the great always has been one the most worst offenses a jw could possibly commit.. could this be a case of local elders interpreting/applying things their own way or is there a (new) general policy trending ?.
anyone who knows about similar cases ?.
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raven
Ok, this is weird.. And the elders just flat out don't seem to care? Wouldn't you think they'd be concerned that this couple would say "false things" about the orgs teaching based on their newfound religion? Hmm..
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63
I've had enough..
by raven inso last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?
i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?
quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!
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raven
OUTLAW- I sure hope not... Would they really go through the effort to drive down here and catch me walking around? They must really want to know my juicy sexy secrets.
THE SEARCHER- Hi friend, I would LOVE to know who this anonymous tipper was- But I know now after connecting the dots of this whole saga that my mother just made it up in effect to show that I have 2 witnesses against me, her and the anonymous person- To get me to confess with having 2 people as witnesses.. Such junk. None of these elders have personally confronted me, just phone calls of which I ignored and then these letters.GIORDANO-
I hope that it doesn't come to full blown stalking.. But I don't think it will, being that I move next week.. Unless they're just really good with timing stakeouts.. If they did, I wouldn't think twice about calling the police.. Hasn't the org received any punishment from stalking? ( I have heard other experiences of stakeouts by elders nearby the accused home, or place of work )
C.R.S. 18-3-602. Stalking - penalty - definitions -
(3) A person who commits stalking:
(a) Commits a class 5 felony for a first offense except as otherwise provided in subsection (5) of this section; or
(b) Commits a class 4 felony for a second or subsequent offense, if the offense occurs within seven years after the date of a prior offense for which the person was convicted.
(4) Stalking is an extraordinary risk crime that is subject to the modified presumptive sentencing range specified in section 18-1.3-401 (10). -
63
I've had enough..
by raven inso last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?
i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?
quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!
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raven
GIORDANO-
Thank you so much for pulling this information, I probably wouldn’t have been able to find this myself! I saved it as well, just incase.. You never know when this could work to my advantage.. I’ve already considered myself an EX member for some time now.. If my fade had not been discovered I would be considered inactive at this point.. Like I had mentioned before, I don’t associate with ANY member of the congregation, I have zip, zilch, zero, to do with any of the members including these elders.
DIVERGENT-
Good point.. As far as I know, she doesn’t. I haven’t talked on the phone with her in a long time, as far as text messages, she could have some but they aren’t in regards to my living situation. Do you think by any chance the elders would ask to take a look at her text conversations with me from past? – I think I am just more frustrated with the fact that she gave them my address after I gave it to her for private reasons to forward me my mail.. And then she gives it up to them willingly, its like she’s their private spy.. I’ve felt this for time now and I’m kicking myself for giving her the address. But this move to the new house could not have happened at a better time, and she won’t be getting my new address. I’ll just have my mail forwarded to me by the actual post office.. ALSO- the address I currently live at isn’t under my name so I don’t think that the elders mail will be sent to the new one.. I just don’t want to turn this into a legal issue, I’m already exhausted, and I don’t want to drag out the drama so to speak.. You know what I mean?
DUNEDAIN-
Thank you for the boost of confidence friend, I agree with you 100% I think I just needed validation from this forum to help me see that I am doing what I can do and have the POWER to do from my own standpoint.. Believe me, I will NOT be going to their JC… As I mentioned previously a piece of me feels bad because the letter sounds so sweet loving and nice, but I have to think back again to what will really happen if I go, berating interrogations, and coercing. It’s like talking a dog into a cage. I also cannot believe the timing of this move, it is PERFECT. I hope that this takes me off radar without any contact point, I’ve already blocked their numbers and the KH number they were calling me on.. And now they won’t even know where I live to send me these letters.. I just cannot by any means give my mom the new address because then I’ll be harassed all over again.
Do you have any experience with dodging these types of things? I don’t care if I am Disfellowshipped, I just would prefer my privacy and not receive unwanted phone calls and mail- But I also refuse to speak with them.
ISLAND MAN-
Love that letter! So true, and to the point! Let me guess, you sent your body of elders a similar letter ;)?
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63
I've had enough..
by raven inso last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?
i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?
quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!
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raven
FREDDO- I will end up DF'd at some point. I don't really care about that, but I am just concerned as to what "guidelines" lead them to what they are currently doing. And I also just wish they'd do it already and leave me alone. But there is no way I'm giving in to an interrogation, my first JC ( when I was reproved ) involved questions such as "Was there any penetration?" "Where did you touch him, and where did he touch you?" " And how do you feel about not remaining chaste until marriage?" - I'm not going to let these men ask me such vile questions, or give into cowering like a good little dub and complying with their demands for me to confess and get wrapped up into living in a cult again. As far as the "anonymous tipper" my mother told me that, not the elders.. So I think she just made it up in order for me to confess with assuming there are 2 witnesses. - I also feel that if these elders did get "evidence" they probably wouldn't have any luck, the house is very hard to get to, it also is so obvious if there is a car out front with the way it sits.. I would know if someone was staking out.. Plus I'm hardly there with working full time long hours.
Do you think as a last resort of proof they will stake out at the house?
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Plastic Surgery
by raven inhi everyone- i don't have much of an update on my current situation ( refer to previous posts ) august 1st has past, (the day the judicial committee was supposedly held against me- and that i didn't attend, no word on anything as of now, thankfully i am moving to a new home next week which means no more elders sending me spooky jc invite mail!
anyways, i'm getting off the main reason why i'm posting.. so i have tendency to drift off into thought and have discussions with myself, ( i'm not crazy i swear!
) i was thinking today, have we heard any more updates on appearances?
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raven
SEVAN- I have never ever understood why so many people in the organization ( I know a few that sound like this woman ) can live life like this.. And yet they're never brought to the back room like those of us who have (me) had relations before marriage with ONE PERSON. Not dabbling in men one after another, living lavish, "bad" association, and taking advantage of people in the congregation.. Doesn't that seem worse than having an intimate relationship with a guy and keeping quiet about it? Gets me going that these people still present themselves as these righteous goody-two-shoes, all while getting cosmetic surgeries, living a seemingly rich lifestyle, ( materialism ) tax fraud, and a haughty attitude. - I don't have a problem if someone is like that, but when they pretend to be something they're not, ( Ex: a perfect Jdub ) then I have a problem and become bitter because I'm going through a $#!t show with the elders right now for " sex before marriage" what a joke.
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63
I've had enough..
by raven inso last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?
i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?
quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!
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raven
DIVERGENT- YES! I feel like I am piecing this puzzle together.. I was mind blown when my mom first told me that the elders have an anonymous tipper, I demanded to know who it was and she says: " It wasn't me, but you know Jehovah always reveals the truth.." And then I came to thinking that someone anonymous who attends same congregation as I once did is pretty much impossible being that I live an hour + away, in a different town, the house is also nestled back in neighborhoods here ( very hard to find ) .. There is no way someone would have any proof of me living with my boyfriend, unless they actually stalked me and followed me into the house.. So I've concluded my mother lied and claimed an anonymous tipper outed me to the elders so that I would give in and confess on my own. She is the ONLY one that knows. So therefore I don't think they can just go off of her word only right? This is is definitely why I keep getting invited to JC's. I'm wondering if they'll keep sending letters each time I don't show up? I've already blocked all of their phone numbers, and the KH number they've tried calling me on too.. I move to a new home next week and like I mentioned, I will not be giving my mother my new address ( she obviously gave it to the elders so that they could do this ) - I feel like once I move, maybe the contact will cease. If they continue to send letters to my old address, maybe the new homeowner will return it to them on my behalf LOL!
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63
I've had enough..
by raven inso last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?
i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?
quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!
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raven
DJS- I'm not necessarily saying I'm at a loss of what to do, I'm simply showing and explaining this saga of events.
I didn't attend the last JC invite held on August 1st.. I was told that if I didn't attend the first (on this forum through others experiences) that I would have been DF'd through absentia. Secondly as far as your advice on obtaining a lawyer, I would prefer not to drag this out into a legal matter - Do you know how much that would cost me?
I'm choosing not to meet with these people but I am just curious on what to expect if I follow through with blowing them off for the second time, or why they are continuing to invite me to JC's.
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63
I've had enough..
by raven inso last night, after thinking "wow those pesky elders have finally left me alone, maybe since i skipped out on their jc invitation back on august 1st they've given up" wrong.. i go to check the mail and there's an envelope at my front door- lo and behold, another letter from from these elders.. why won't they leave me alone already?
i'll attach a picture of the letter.. again, same letter as the first one inviting me to a judicial committee on august 15th - and signed by all three elders.. should i just continue to ignore?
quite frankly i don't give a rats arse i've been enjoying life free from the mind control of the organization, and i just wish they would drop it and let me live life.. like i mentioned before, i am moving to a new home next week, the only reason these elders have my current address ( which happens to be over 100 miles away from the cong ) is because my mother gave it to them, after i gave it to her in confidence to forward me my mail.. so lets just say she won't be getting my new address... i don't have any contact with ones from this congregation (i'm an ex pioneer, so i'm sure if they've gotten word on what i'm doing, i must be satan himself!
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raven
Good Point DESIROUSOFCHANGE -
Do you think that since their 1 witness is my mother ( apparently they claim they have 2, but the second is anonymous,- I don't buy it since I live over an hour away in a different town than where the congregation is located.. I've asked others about this on the forum and they think that the anonymous tipper was my mother, so then she claimed that they have 2 witnesses to trick me into turning myself in. ) Why do you think they're calling me in for a second JC? Since I skipped the last one I was invited to on August 1st? I assumed they would have made their decision after I didn't show on the first.. Why are they inviting me to a second? Is it because there really is no anonymous tipper? So they're trying to get me to confess on my own?