today i experienced the absolute "climax" in my life .
the first words he spoke to us, when we asked him about the state of health of my aunt, were: .
at this moment we were aware of the fact that my aunt always spoke the truth about this man; but she was unable to help herself.
Think,
I knew I could count on you sweetheart. I'm sure everyone else just hasn't gotten to this post yet.
It never ceases to amaze me how incredible the people on this board are when someone needs a little comfort. It makes me proud to be a member of this forum.
Take care,
Dave
today i experienced the absolute "climax" in my life .
the first words he spoke to us, when we asked him about the state of health of my aunt, were: .
at this moment we were aware of the fact that my aunt always spoke the truth about this man; but she was unable to help herself.
I'm bringing this one back up. It should be read by all. I don't care if Erich is a JW or if he believes in
the damn Easter bunny. He and his wife are hurting and he has had a tremendous injustice done to him. He needs some comforting words said to him. Screw the religious stuff and give some compassion to a fellow human being.
Show him what all you incredible people are made of.
Dave
today i experienced the absolute "climax" in my life .
the first words he spoke to us, when we asked him about the state of health of my aunt, were: .
at this moment we were aware of the fact that my aunt always spoke the truth about this man; but she was unable to help herself.
Erich,
I am so sorry for you pain. This is a bad thing to happen to anyone. It is sad to see how your aunt had to spend her last days on this earth.
I do not know what country you are in but you seem to have enough to have the authorities look into the actions of this man. I do not know if it will do any good but you might try and get a hold of your watchtower branch and tell the story to them. It would be interesting to see what they will do about it.
It is good that you have your wife and she has you. At times like this having your loved ones around can help heal the pain. Your aunt as well as yourself have been dealt a great injustice. I hope the man can be brought to justice and put in jail.
Take care Erich, my thoughts are with you.
Dave
if it is possible can you post why you were disfellowshipped?
The act of disfellowshipping is YOUR description of how YOU look at us, not ours to you. I do not recognize any so called discipline from any religion so I do not accept their thought of me being either disfellowshipped, fallen away, or the nicely boxed in the description of an apostate. It is YOU and your religion who needs to create such a situation to make your confused life easy to understand.
By starting a thread on this site you are openly inviting those who you see as disfellowshipped into your house.
Here is YOUR scriptural quote that YOU posted on another thread to try and explain to someone the JW stance on talking to us.
<<<If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.>>>
Each time you contribute to or start a thread you are showing the hypocrisy of your existence here.
I don't expect you to see that, as a JW you are trained to justify your actions no matter how contradictory they may seem.
YoYo, it is obvious that you have a good heart. You do not come here like most JW's and tell us how evil we are. It looks like you are searching for answers and trying to understand. If you love your religion and need it to survive I hope you leave this board soon. Until you can read what is said here and do that with an open mind and open heart you are just making yourself look bad. I don't believe that is your intention but as one human being to another, be careful.
Take care.
Dave
i posted this same topic earlier but it didn't go through so i have to do it again.. i didn't think my ten questions would cause a person(youknow) to be attacked because his opinions was different from the majority.. alanf.
i don't know you personally and i don't know what you have gone through in your life, but i can say from what i have seen in here you have a lot of angry,hate, and other issues inside you that needs to be dealt with.
you oblivious have some sort of history with this man.
YoYo PS:
There is no need to apologize for calling me Randy. Being totally oblivious to the obvious is a JW trait that I have gotten use to. I do appreciate the effort though. I can see that you are sincere in your thoughts no matter how I view their authenticity.
Take care,
Dave
i posted this same topic earlier but it didn't go through so i have to do it again.. i didn't think my ten questions would cause a person(youknow) to be attacked because his opinions was different from the majority.. alanf.
i don't know you personally and i don't know what you have gone through in your life, but i can say from what i have seen in here you have a lot of angry,hate, and other issues inside you that needs to be dealt with.
you oblivious have some sort of history with this man.
YoYo,
Like most JW's you impress yourself with the thought that you inherently know the hearts and minds of all people. My Mom is not "your sister" she is my Mom. My family is under complete cult mind control the same as you are. My Mom has seven other kids to think about then just my sister and I. I understand that fact and in a show of unselfish and unconditional love I respect that fact and do not try and talk anything about bible junk in the few times I have seen her. I do not play the emotional crying game that my brothers and sisters turn on when I do pop into their life. I only see my family when someone is dyeing or dead. It's "their religions rules."
Yes, my Mom is a very smart lady but her need for religion and the belief in a God overshadows her level of intelligence. She was a very bright and strong catholic before the JW's showed up at her door. She bought into the religion for one reason and one reason only. She wanted to divorce my dad who was a bit of a bastard and constantly cheated on her. The catholic religion which she was brought up in did not allow divorces. The JW religion did in cases of adultery. She joined the religion, followed my dad around and caught him cheating. She got what she wanted. She immediately met my step dad and they got married. My step dad hasn't read anything out side of the JW publications in his life.
My childhood was a damn nightmare of little brainwashing gatherings.
My mom spent many years reading nothing but JW books. She bought the concept of only reading their garbage hook line and sinker. Now she is old and her family and religion is all she has. I do not want her to stop being a JW. I do not want her to hear and see the things I know about the religion. If the religion makes her happy and it keeps the rest of her kids in line then so be it. When you love someone you respect their thoughts and beliefs no matter how it effects your own life. If I could see her without my family sticking watchtowers under my nose I would really love that. It is they and not I that push the religious issues. I cannot deal with their condescending and self righteous attitudes. It is more important for them to wave the flag of their religion than it is for my Mom to try and enjoy the company of her son. That is not love, that is pure selfish mind control reaction. I was shocked to hear my mom actually tell my step dad to shut up. She had never done that before and I laughed my ass off.
Yes, I am also an intelligent person, more than you might imagine. I have more than a way with words, I have a way with logic, reasoning, thinking, and the ability to keep an open mind on all subject matter. I do not have the confinement of any religious philosophy to influence my observations and corrupt my decision making. I have an IQ that would shock you and the freedom of thought to use it. I have done a lot of reading and soul searching. I read the books and religious theory that the JW religion told their followers not to read. It became obvious why they did not want their brainwashed followers to read them. It had nothing to do with weakening your faith but more in reveling the lies about it. I can admit when I am wrong and look at it as a way to better understand myself and others. I do not blindly accept anything just because someone I respect feels differently and I do not reject their association because they do think differently. I do not assume that I am always right and I do not assume how someone else feels. I do my own thinking and do not allow a group of any kind dictate how I should fell about anything. I embrace truth and facts without reservation or distortion by a concept that I would "like" to believe or would make my life easier.
You say it is easy to blame everything on the JW's, that martyr stance is just one of the tools they use to control minds of people like yourself. I do not blame anything on the JW's they do not deserve. The only "easy" thing involving the JW's is being in the religion. They tell you exactly how to think in every aspect of life. None of it's members have to conjure up an original thought about anything. You keep the Jell-O mold laws of the watchtower in your head and you automatically have your thoughts on any situation predigested and ready to pass judgment on in a seconds. Not one single one of you has or needs the ability to think for yourself. In fact you are told NOT to! Your thinking is already processed for you like baby food is for an infant child who does not have the teeth to chew their own food.
Religious brainwashing has caused millions to die on this planet from a time further back than the Spanish inquisition and crusades right down to a hand full of religious fanatics flying jet airplanes into a couple of towers killing thousands. The JW's kill their own family members using psychological death as well as withholding life saving medical treatment. You are so blinded by your religion you can't see beyond anything they restrict you from seeing. Don't eat blood what a joke! Everytime you eat a piece of red meat you eat blood. That is an absolute fact and none of you will ever admit it. The next time you see that red "juice" flowing out of your medium rare stake think about that. Cooked or not cooked its blood!
You say you don't know what "I imagined I saw" at Bethel. Don't insult my intelligence by assuming I "imagined" anything. I was a full fledged brainwashed JW at the time I went back just as you are now. Do you really think the JW leaders would fly me back to New York from Portland Oregon to consult on extremely sensitive subjects if they did not see me as brainwashed as you? Do you think they would offer me my own private brownstone aparment in Brooklyn so that I could bring my wife and kids to live with me as I tried to straighten out their mess? I am a highly respected professional in my field and one of the best at what I do in the whole country. I am not and have never been one of the rank and file sanitary engineers of the watchtower society. I was asked to consult and help out because I have superior ability and knowledge in the areas they needed help in.
What I saw was contempt, fear, confusion, concealment of the facts and blatant stupidity! I saw elders on huge power trips who ran entire departments without any qualifications what so ever except for the fact that they were power hungry and egotistical elders. I saw hatred for these people and fear to disclose this hatred. I saw constat sneaking around, constant fear of being found out. I absolutely observed expenditures on equipment that just sat and collected dust because some dumb ass elder did not have the brains to know what it was. I saw a cast system of extremely privileged ones who treated subordinates as if they were worthless slaves. I met with a young brother from my kingdom hall who in a few short months was given the great honor of sharing a brownstone apartment with one of the almighty governing body. He accomplished this little trick because the governing body members last room mate was secretly kicked out of Bethel for getting young brothers drunk and having sex with them. I was told about how elderly JW who die leave their entire estates to the religion after they die. This is because they do not have any children to leave it too because the religion convinced them they were living in the time of the end and they should not have any children.
I saw much more and don't for a second say that I imagined any of it. I do not let things like that blind me to the fact that the religion I was brought up in and believed in was corrupt and concealed some of the most discussing things I had ever seen. The Brooklyn leadership has many liars, cheaters, manipulators and sexual deviants. I saw it first hand. I was shocked and appalled by what I saw. The secret locked library had only a little to do with it. When I was in that room and told that only a few were allowed in there because the "average brother" might not understand everything they would see in there, that was the straw that broke the camels back. You could go from shelf to shelf and see the publications contradicted themselves and constantly swapped religious theory. When the truth came out about the lies they called it "new light" and the average JW bought into it. The high ranking brothers in the room with me even had a little laugh about the whole stupid game. It made me sick!
Next time you are in Brooklyn visiting your governing body good buddies why don't you ask them if you can visit the library on the administration floor? If they have nothing to hide, they should unlock the door and let you browse to your hears discontent.
I gave my report on my observations and gave my recommendations on fixing the problems and I was asked to leave three days early. I kept what I saw back there to myself for a while because just like the people back at Bethel I was afraid of loosing my family. After a while I could no longer deal with living a lie. I quit trying to justify what I saw by their pat answer "the brothers are imperfect." I quit lying to myself about how I really felt about things in my own congregation. I took my own advice and made some positive changes in my life. I did it because I quit trying to "imagine" what I saw was not true.
The JW religions leadership is made up of mostly corrupt men with huge egos and a feeling of superiority that completely sickened me. You would have to be completely blind and totally brainwashed to see the things I saw and not question them.
DO NOT tell me what you think I "imagined" there. DO NOT tell me that I am the blinded one. My eyes are so wide open I had to eventually leave my wife and kids along with my entire family and friends because of what I saw there. If you had any idea of the reality of walking away from your whole life because of not being able to continue on being blinded to the "truth" about that religion then you are more brainwashed then the explanation of the word can define.
It is not anger that made me leave or speak of these things, it is "truth"! I gave up my entire existence because I refused to remain blinded to the things I saw and heard.
Don't for a second try and tell me I "imagined" one single thing. I did not walk away from a life and my family because I "imagined" anything. It took more guts and conviction for what is right than you will ever "imagine."
Keep your blinders on YoYo, they fit you well.
Dave
i posted this same topic earlier but it didn't go through so i have to do it again.. i didn't think my ten questions would cause a person(youknow) to be attacked because his opinions was different from the majority.. alanf.
i don't know you personally and i don't know what you have gone through in your life, but i can say from what i have seen in here you have a lot of angry,hate, and other issues inside you that needs to be dealt with.
you oblivious have some sort of history with this man.
Yrs2long,
Thank you for your kind words. My mom doesn't have a lot of time left and I have already dealt with the fact that I probably have seen her for the last time a few years ago. Going through all the heart ache created by that religion makes a person a little more tough then they might have turned out without it. My mom lives in my heart. She always has and always will. I told her that as I said my last good bye to her. When she finally goes I'm sure I will go off by myself somewhere and think of the great memories of her when I was a kid. She is a big reason I am the person that I am and I will always hold that thought as one of my most precious possessions. I do not look at her as a JW, I look at her as my mom, I always will. I just wish before she goes she can finally see me as her son and not an exJW. I really hate that religion but I still love some of it's people.
Life goes on.
Take care,
Dave
i posted this same topic earlier but it didn't go through so i have to do it again.. i didn't think my ten questions would cause a person(youknow) to be attacked because his opinions was different from the majority.. alanf.
i don't know you personally and i don't know what you have gone through in your life, but i can say from what i have seen in here you have a lot of angry,hate, and other issues inside you that needs to be dealt with.
you oblivious have some sort of history with this man.
Uncle Bruce,
My little trip to Bethel opened my eyes and shocked the hell out of me. I came in to Brooklyn as a VIP and was taken back to the airport by a guy from the motor pool. I guess they didn't like what I had to say in my evaluation of the visit. There was a lot of things that blew my mind. The little secret locked library and daily walk with Freddie are only two of them and they were not the worse.
It was quite a trip!
--------------------------------------------------
Island Woman,
I have a very tough chin. I think it's an Irish thing.
--------------------------------------------------
Dung,
I completely understand where you are coming from but I think maybe Danni said a few things without the benefit of the big picture. As a cop you tend to make quick decissions because you are forced to. Danni is trying to get both sides and is just commenting from a limited amount if information. She is trying to figure it out without the benefit of being a JW and then being an exJW and it is a little hard to swallow all the conflict that she has had thrown in front of her so quickly.
If I didn't know what was going on and popped onto this site and read some of the things posted here I would think that everyone is completely nuts. Try to look at it just a little bit from her perspective. I know she is trying to do the same for us. This is a lot of information to try and make heads or tails of in a short amount of time. It is naturel for her to come to a few wrong conclusions given the flood of conflict and volume of information.
I'm personally cutting her some slack. Women cops scare me especially knowing they carry a gun. <----(bad humor)
Take care,
Dave
when you start reading rays book and find out that everything you know to be factual, the only constant, solid, truth in the universe is just nothing?
i've known this in my head since i started reading posts here on xmas day but i have never really believed it.
i thought i just wanted to believe it so that i could rid myself of some of this guilt i've always carried around.
Flower,
You take it one day at a time. It does get better. You are on an emotional roller coaster right now. Your highs will be very high and your lows very low. As the ride progresses the ups and downs will not be as drastic, it will begin to level out and you will start to feel better. It just takes a little time.
Life is good. The JW's try to prove the existence of god by saying how beautiful this planet is with all the birds and plants and incredible scenery. They point to the beautiful seasons and the joyful playing of young animals to make that point. Then in the same breath they talk about how ugly and terrible a place the earth is and how wicked our existence is on this planet. They simply do not make sense.
Just keep your mind open and know that someday it will all make sense to you. You have a lot of time to sit back and watch everything unfold. Once you have seen that, everything will start to look better. Now you know how little kids feel when they finally figure out there really isn't a Santa Clause.
Keep your chin up and try to find the humor in it all. Once you can laugh at yourself for believing the talking snake, naked lady and piece of fruit story you will be just fine. You did not convince yourself of all this bull, someone else convinced you of it. Now you need to start listening to yourself. It's a freedom and happiness you have never felt before.
Sit back and enjoy the ride to reality land, you will be a better person because of it all.
Take care,
Dave
i posted this same topic earlier but it didn't go through so i have to do it again.. i didn't think my ten questions would cause a person(youknow) to be attacked because his opinions was different from the majority.. alanf.
i don't know you personally and i don't know what you have gone through in your life, but i can say from what i have seen in here you have a lot of angry,hate, and other issues inside you that needs to be dealt with.
you oblivious have some sort of history with this man.
IW,
I will be more careful how I word things next time. Thanks for making your point. It is appreciated.
Take care,
Dave
