I would like to ask for those who care about this issue to please stop posting about it at this time.
This is very important and I hope you all understand. Please!
This is all I can say at this time.
Thank you.
Dave
seven006
JoinedPosts by seven006
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74
I'm another Newbie
by MyMy inhey peeps, how are you?.
the name is mark, i've been hanging around here from time to time.
i read about the elders meeting with officer danni.s.
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seven006
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37
Synopses of the Danni issue
by seven006 infor those who would like a synopses of this issue for what ever reason, i would like to try and put as many of the confusing pieces together as i can.
why they chose to do it at a kingdom hall is understandable.
mark made his post and revealed a few facts in this issue that were suppressed by the gag order.
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seven006
At this time I need to stop all post's by me or anyone else that cares about this issue.
Please! This is very important!
I hope that you all understand.
Dave
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37
Synopses of the Danni issue
by seven006 infor those who would like a synopses of this issue for what ever reason, i would like to try and put as many of the confusing pieces together as i can.
why they chose to do it at a kingdom hall is understandable.
mark made his post and revealed a few facts in this issue that were suppressed by the gag order.
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seven006
Reborn,
Thanks for your comments, they are appreciated
-----------------------------
Marilyn,I was starting to think you didn't like me. I have never seen you respond to anything I have said before. I thought that rotten Alan F said something bad about me. Either him or that little
VeniceIT munchkin. I have told her time and time again I am too old for her. You know, that woman
scorned thing.-------------------------------
Andee, It looks like I said that wrong. Issued by the court, filed by the good old boys.
Your neutral status is sometimes the best way to go.--------------------------------
Skipper,
Shut UP!
I will answer the novel that you sent to me in the email as soon as I can.
Just keep on thinking, it's what you do best. I always get a kick out of you.--------------------------------
Joel,
As I have told you several times. If you ever want to email me I will take the time to answer you.
Where ever you are, I'm pretty sure you will end up where you need to be.I do not know were Danni or this incident took place. I have not asked. By her bio I figured it was in Florida. Alan F looked up the hint Mark gave and came up with El Paso. At this point I don't know and I do not see why it matters. Some feel it does matter so it must be important to them. I have a gut feeling it might be Florida but that could be just a little indigestion talking. Again, outside of the tape recorder legal issue I don't see why I need to know that particular information.
----------------------------------Fred,
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Refiners Fire,Just because Danni and Darryl are cops does not mean they are not sinners. I personally think that
sinning is a cute name for being normal.
-------------------------------------AjaxMan
Try not to use up the entire board with your thoughts. I like a person who can cut to the chase like you. Thanks man.
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SF,Do you Yahoo?
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Dana,Go for it woman, it's never too late to right a wrong.
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Andee
That is a good observation. Like I told Alan some congregations do not necessarily use the name of their city in the name of their congregation. They can take a non incorporated community name or a name of a geographical marker. In some cities like that have the word "saint" in them like St. Louis or
St. Petersburg the JW's will not use that cities name because of it. Trying to find it on a map of cities names my be impossible. There was a congregation here where I live that was in the city of St.Johns. They changed the name to be (if I can recall) Foot Hills or River Side or something like that. They were at the foot hills of what is known as the West Hills and they were also close to the Willamette River.Again, I do not see why it is important but for those who do, have fun looking. I want to respect the fact that Danni did not want to disclose the exact location and I can understand and do not want or need to know.
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Did I miss anyone?
Dave
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37
Synopses of the Danni issue
by seven006 infor those who would like a synopses of this issue for what ever reason, i would like to try and put as many of the confusing pieces together as i can.
why they chose to do it at a kingdom hall is understandable.
mark made his post and revealed a few facts in this issue that were suppressed by the gag order.
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seven006
On a personal note to Danni:
Because of knowing why you originally came here and the feelings you have for a JW man that showed you good morals and a kind heart I am sure you are feeling some confusion and maybe some pain. I feel genuinely bad for you, and I want you to know that I still have your original goal in mind and my heart and my thoughts go out to you. You have found a lot more about the JW religion than you ever dreamed of. What started out as a simple goal to gain a little insight into a man's heart and mind has opened some doors that you may never realize the good that may come of it. Your efforts may end up as a personal sacrifice to you and cause you some pain. Please believe me when I tell you that I don't think that anyone here had the goal of destroying any feelings you have.
If this man has a genuine good heart and he can look at all sides of this issue with an open mind and acceptance of the truth you will have what you were looking for. If not, I am genuinely sorry and I hope you can see my comments in my last email to you as they were intended. That is having your best interest at heart and possibly saving you from a little pain down the road. You never know what will happen until it happens.
I do not have words that can fully express my appreciation and admiration for you. You are someone who as an outsider touched the hearts of may people. When this is all over, I think there will be many, if they haven't already, who will give you their personal thanks in appreciation for your efforts. I will give you mine now:
Thank you Danni, you are one hell of a person and one hell of a good cop.
Take care,
Dave
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37
Synopses of the Danni issue
by seven006 infor those who would like a synopses of this issue for what ever reason, i would like to try and put as many of the confusing pieces together as i can.
why they chose to do it at a kingdom hall is understandable.
mark made his post and revealed a few facts in this issue that were suppressed by the gag order.
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seven006
For those who would like a synopses of this issue for what ever reason, I would like to try and put as many of the confusing pieces together as I can. Before I go into my personal observations of as many issues that can be revealed I would like to make some statements that may help a few look at things a bit different.
First: I would like to address those who have sent me email and have not received a response as of yet. I will answer each and every one of them as soon as I can. I am not trying to ignore anyone. I hope some of the things I say in this post will answer some of your questions.
Second: As far as myself and a few others having inside information is this issue that cannot be revealed at this time I would like to ask those who that fact has upset to please be patient. I do not like it when things like this happen but in this case because of legal action brought on by the watchtower society to try and suppress the details of this volatile issue there are people who need to be protected by this information suppression effort. There is no kind of an "elite" group that is trying to play games or act superior to anyone. It basically breaks down to being in the right place at the right time and trying to help establish all the facts to get to the truth of this whole matter. In this process a bogus gag order was served on Danni and her partner Darryl and until that order is dealt with anything I may or may not know in this matter has to be suppressed for their protection.
Third: Because of information that I may or may not posses it is easier for me to come to some strong conclusions on the authenticity of statements made in this issue. If I am wrong and this issue is not a genuine in it's content I will be the first to admit it and the first to say I was made a big fool of. I do not see that happening. If it is, I would have learned one hell of a lesson just as the rest of us. I always apologize when I have found that I have made a mistake and I have no problem doing that. Again, I do not see that happening in this case.
Forth: It is absolutely impossible for anyone reading or commenting on this issue to have a complete understanding of the other persons perspective. Danni and Mark are new to this board and do not understand its complete nature. When a few people attached Danni it puzzled her and she had a hard time understanding why. Others were just asking questions and because of the previous negative comments she saw some of those questions as personal attacks. That is understandable. What she did not understand is that the contributors to this board have many different issues and reasons for posting what they do. There are some and most of us know who they are who's sole purpose is to disrupt and discredit any information that may shed a light on watchtower corruption. Without knowing who these people are because of being new to this board it was easy on Danni's part to feel we are all doubting her authenticity and real purpose for coming here. This is an open forum. Simon does not have a secret little "kingdom ministry quote code" that only allows those who are in absolute agreement to post here. It is in the best interest of the watchtower society to have some people cause a little trouble on this board.
Fifth: Most of us have family that are still in the religion. Simply put, we still love them and we do not see them in the same way that we see the leaders of the watchtower. It is sometimes hard to separate the two. Statements that blanket all JW's into one group of corrupt people will cause hurt feelings and instant reaction to those who are viewing these comments as including our loved ones and families. We have all made jokes about various characteristic of the JW people and will probably continue to do so. Those who have been out for a while probably do not necessarily see their family members this way but because of personal pain and experiences it brings some comfort to try and turn anger into humor. If those who are new in leaving the religion find this offensive, that is completely understandable. Give it some time and you might begin to understand why this is done. Please do not forget how your individual family members that are still in the religion would view those exJW's on this board whom they do not know. We are not their family, we are evil apostates in their eyes. A balanced view of all feelings in the big picture will help those new ones who are fresh out of the religion to understand.
SYNOPSES:
Danni appeared on this forum to gather a little information about a JW man that she was interest in. That is not the first time that something like this has happened on this and other exJW boards. She revealed that she was a police officer at this point and in a very short time she was given a highly compressed version of many of our thoughts about the JW religion and the problems we have had with it. She at first was defensive because of her feelings for this JW man and the good qualities she had observed in him. This fact, which I completely understand caused her to remain, for a little while, in a defensive mode.
I mention in a post that I once served as a police officer so she emailed me thinking I could better understand where she was coming from and give her answers that might not be as biased as others. This first email began to solidify my feelings of Danni's authenticity. By things that she said and her method of gathering facts convinced me as a one time cop that she was what she claimed to be. Because of the nature of law enforcement work, cop's become very suspicious of a lot of things. This little fact is a major contributing factor that has given the law enforcement occupation the highest divorce rate in the country.
I continued to observe how Danni went about her fact finding to get at the truth of her new found information. Her approach in doing this is dead on with how cops look for information. Once she took the time to investigate the issue that shocked her about child molestation and the cover up involved with it, she did as most cops do, she keep digging and researching.
It should be noted that out of any criminal action child molesters are looked at with the same contempt as a murder, in some cases even worse. Even in the prison system most prisoners have a separate section of solitary confinement that holds child molesters away from the general prison population. This is because they are looked at as the lowest of scum by the lowest of criminals. If they were to be let out to the general population they are in many prisons killed by the inmates. As crazy as that might sound, criminals have kids too. They see this as the worst of crimes. Murders are praised in prison, child molesters are killed.
It should also be noted that many cops see the child molester as a sick human being. They do not try to justify their actions but rather understand the sickness. One of the first thing's you learn as a police officer is the difference between a common criminal and the criminal actions of a sick minded individual.
Danni emailed me with information about a home visit that the JW man whom she was interested in set up for her. We all know this scenario, "you have shown some interest in bible matters to one of our members and we are here to see if you would like to learn more by the way of a home bible study." That is as normal as it gets.
At that meeting where the JW's came to Danni's door she began to ask questions about the child molestation cover up issue. She revealed herself as being a police officer and as such was interested in what they had to say. As in any case that is beyond the average "god" questions the JW visitors wished to have a little back up on this controversial issue and invited her to meet with the elders of the congregation.
Why they chose to do it in the back room during a meeting is beyond me. Why they chose to do it at a kingdom hall is understandable. The voice on the speaker phone has a big part to do with that. The information of who the person on the phone was is one of those little facts that cannot be reviled on this open forum at this time.
At this point it should be noted that some information was given to me before the gag order. I have not asked for, nor has any information about this issue been given since. Mark made his post and revealed a few facts in this issue that were suppressed by the gag order. Mark is not under the gag order but several points that he made and that I had previous knowledge before to the gag order matched up perfectly. That information along with some information that is still suppressed that I learned of before the order, again match up.
I could go into a long explanation of my thoughts about why the meeting was held during a regular meeting of the congregation but to put it in a nutshell, I see it as a simple fuck up by the elders. The term "dog and pony show" comes to mind but that view has upset a few people so forget I said it.
Danni asked for people to give her questions that she couldpresent during this meeting at the hall. I did not give Danni any questions. I hope she did not think I was abandoning her because of this. I wanted Danni's questions to be from Danni. I did not want the elders accusing her of being a representative of apostates and asking them questions outside of the main issue. I did type up some questions but decided not to send them. The elders did accuse her of being a representative of apostates (big surprise) and now I wish I had sent her the questions. According to what I have seen through the years, any question that might expose the watchtower of something not reminiscent of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is automatically look at as coming from apostates. That's one hell of a position to use to keep their people in the dark. Any question that is not both asked and answered by the watchtower writing staff is considered to be from apostates. I just love that game.
THE MEETING AT THE HALL:
I wish I could go into depth about the voice on the speaker phone and the legally unethical issues it brings up but I can't. So I won't. Cuz I don't want to. And I'm sticking by that.
Many of you have voice an objection to the way Darryl jumped on the elder who questioned his motives and the issue about speaking to members of the congregation. Before I address that issue I think it is important to note the "expressive language" was used by both sides. For those who do not think that any elders from any congregation, anywhere on the earth, have never, and would never use such language I have only one thing to say. Bullshit!
As far as a police officer using such language? Well, I was a cop and I don't remember using such language in a heated confrontation before, but my memory may be all fucked up on such things.
When dealing with low life scum and assholes all day they can tend to piss you off especially when those little "pukes" (cop word for pricks) lie to you.Getting back to Darryl. It is Darryl's job as Danni's partner to cover her back in life and death situations on a daily basis. She as his partner will do the same. That bond and that loyalty is hard to shut off like a light switch even in the sacred halls of a holy place. I do not expect anyone to completely understand this. I do.
Both parties were on the defensive. When that happens, shit happens. The elders felt they were being attacked even though it was on their turf, on their terms, and with their surprise visitor via the speaker phone. The subject matter was controversial. If there is absolutely no cover up and no reason to try and hide a watchtower police that might be seen as illegal then I do not see why the elders got so defensive. A big ugly cop (sorry Darryl) getting in your face? Sure I can buy that. But the fact remains that if there was nothing to hide then there would have been nothing to get all heated about.
The elders were on the defensive because they know the JW policy of hiding facts about child molesters is wrong and they know absolutely that the policy has existed for a long time. Do elders try to hide wrong things to try and make them look clean and above reproach to the public?Four words, Tacoma Dome Parking Scandal!
The meeting is over and Danni and Darryl leave with a tape that can absolutely prove what was said and by who. The fact is the conversation was on tape. The problem is, did the elders know they were being taped? Because of the gag order I do not know the answer to this question. But, because of the gag order I ask myself why does this tape bother the elders so much? Is it the elders it bothers, or the voice on the speaker phone that it bothers? Could the elders see the tape recorder and just not mention it the blind speaker phone voice? When the argument came up about leaving the tape behind did it shock the voice on the speaker phone and he then said "shit, this was taped?" Why would the voice care? Did the voice or the elders do something wrong? Does the voice know who he is and maybe the voice knows he did something unethical in the world of legal voice guys? Does the voice know that the other party should have had prior knowledge of the voice so they could ethically have their own secret voice guy to be present in a secret speaker voice capacity? I guess until the gag order is taken care of we will never know about the world of secret speaker phone voice people.
Some have said they have a hard time believing there was a guy on the speaker phone. The issue is watchtower child molestation policy. Dateline is involved (I know, they called me about this whole thing). It is becoming an issue that is being discussed by both JW's and non JW's alike. The watchtower is scared shitless right now because of it. An outsider who just happens to be a cop asks questions about this issue. A meeting is set up. A not so mysterious voice who identifies himself as being on the East coast starts to defend and explain. The voice finds out a tape has been made of the whole conversation.
The next day there is a gag order issued by the watchtower society. They are trying to make it look like two cops tried to kill an old JW man with a heart condition. Didn't the elders know that their beloved brother had a heart condition? If they did, who is to blame for this one? The addition of the secret speaker phone guy might have given them some kind of idea that this wasn't going to be your average "how many orgasms did you have" back room interrogation by elders. Too many screw ups and too many out of the ordinary facts make me believe this more than if it was your average back room pseudo psychology session.
The main issue is "not normal" for JW's to be dealing with. "Not normal" issues bring on "not normal" behavior. It is harder to make up "not normal" than it is to make up "normal."
This post is getting too long and Im tired of typing. If any one wants to hear my opinion on Mark and his story I will do that and post it later. I do believe him. I do understand his zeal in this issue and his desire to band everyone together to do something. I also understand those who have taken offense to that and why they have.
My fingers are tired.
I hope this help a few people to maybe look at his all a little different.
Take care,
Dave
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74
I'm another Newbie
by MyMy inhey peeps, how are you?.
the name is mark, i've been hanging around here from time to time.
i read about the elders meeting with officer danni.s.
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seven006
Andee,
That means a lot to me and I greatly appreciate you saying it.
Thank you.
Dave
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74
I'm another Newbie
by MyMy inhey peeps, how are you?.
the name is mark, i've been hanging around here from time to time.
i read about the elders meeting with officer danni.s.
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seven006
Golddustwoman,
I would first like to say that in the pervious thread you spoke of, I was one who came off as telling some who were skeptical to get off their computers and do something. I later came back and apologized and admitted that some anger developed in me and I was tired of answering emails on this issue. I made a mistake. I hope you read the post where I came back and admitted that. I think your questions and your attitude is very normal and needed. Because of what has happened on this board in the past you and everyone else has the right as well as the obligation to get to the absolute facts of any matter this serious. Your post in that thread as well as teejay's showed me where I was wrong and I greatly appreciate it. Please accept my personal apologia.
Flower,
I have read your posts and my heart genuinely goes out to you. I can see your anger and your frustration. It might be because of where you are presently at in your relationship with the JW religion that you feel the way you do. I can certainly understand that. Just as you have gone up and down on this very emotional and painful issue about learning some true and disturbing things about the religion Mark may not understand where you are coming from and he may see your comments a little different from what they are. If you can take the time to understand his perspective, he might be able to reciprocate on yours. Those who know a little bit more about where you are coming from will certainly understand your comments. I don't think Mark realizes exactly where you are in your life and what has possibly made you feel the way you do. It's just something to think about.
Mark,
This is the third post that I have tried to put up in this thread. Every time I go to post my comments another poser covers what I was going to post. I, (just as many here have been) am one of Danni's biggest supporters. The last few days I have been consumed by this issue. I do have some information that many on this board do not have. When information is held back for any reason it can sometimes cause some skepticism on this board and it can also make for some hurt feelings and controversy.
Before I went to post my first draft tyydyy asked some excellent questions and I held up on posting my comments. Because of the information I have that is not public on this board I had a fairly good idea of what your explanations might be. I came back to ask you to please keep in mind the comments tyydyy made in that the way of asking his questions was not an attack but mainly to clear up a few things that did not seem to add up. Your answers were fairly close to what I thought they might be. Some of the information you presented in your first post matched what I knew to be true but no one else did. In an issue as controversial and important as this one it is crucial for all the pieces to fit. In my estimation your pieces fit and I am very happy to see that.
I would like to ask you to keep a few things in mind. Most of the people on this board are incredibly great people. Most of them have gone through hell and come to this board for various reasons. Most still have families in the religion that they are not allowed to associate with because of the JW police on disfellowshipping. This has cause some incredible pain and it can definitely skew a persons perspective on things and also make them not see things as rationally as they would like to.
Also, there are those who come to this board who are still JW's and are hell bent on causing trouble. Please do not assume that they are the same as those who are simply asking questions. If you stick around long enough you will see the difference. A lot of people on this board have been fooled before by those who claim to be sympathetic with our issues but are really here to cause trouble. Danni found that out fairly quickly. Without having any history on this board it will be almost impossible for you to tell the difference between those who are sincere and those who are not. Everyone has made that mistake including me.
This board is not an easy place to get adjusted too and see everyone as they actually are. The watchtower monitors this board on a regular basis. This board is one of the biggest pains in the ass to the watchtower. The people here have done some incredible things to expose the watchtower's bullshit and they will continue to do that. Some who post here do not want to fight any more, they are just too tired of the shit they have had to deal with and they just want a place to come and talk to people who know where they are coming from. Until you have been out of the religion for a while, that may be hard for you to understand. Please give it some time and please try to understand that everyone here is at a different place in the healing process and their level of anger for what they have had to endure.
If I can help you in any way please let me know. You nave my email address.
On a personal note, I am glad as hell you did what you did and you came here to share it with us. Within time, I think most of the skeptics will have their questions answered and you will see how great these people really are.
Take care
Dave
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74
I'm another Newbie
by MyMy inhey peeps, how are you?.
the name is mark, i've been hanging around here from time to time.
i read about the elders meeting with officer danni.s.
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seven006
Mark,
If you email me I will give you the name and phone number of the Dateline contact. I spoke with him this afternoon and I'm sure he would love to hear from you.
Right now Danni and her partner are under a bogus gag order but you are not. Please email me.
Take care.
Dave
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Thoughts on Silent Lambs
by joelbear infirst i would like to make an apology to bill for my questioning his motives.
i do not have enough evidence to make a claim on this point.
i allowed emotion to weigh into this statement rather than clear thinking.. i will stand by my questioning of some of his judgements regarding disclosure of information and how it was presented, although i will temper that by saying that again i am working on limited data.. i try very hard to keep things from getting personal when i disagree with someone's ideas, feeling or thoughts.. in reviewing my posts to him i have determined that i failed to do that on this issue.. joel
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seven006
Joel,
I think it is apparent that you have been going through a real struggle lately. I have been reading your posts closely ever since your visit with your parents. Just as many who leave the JW's begin to change their feeling about the religion it is easy to find yourself at the far end of the balancing scale when dealing with this emotional issue.
All you are trying to do is find your balance. After you left the religion you may have done as most of us do and see everything you once saw in a certain way, now as the total opposite. You wanted to see the bad in your experience to justify your decision to leave it. That is very normal. Now that you have begun to question your out of balance thoughts you seem to have, for a little while, swung back to yet another unbalance view to justify you present feelings. Again, that is normal.
You will find the truth somewhere in the middle. If you continued to be honest with yourself and only see what a good balance in thought and emotion will show you, you will eventually find what is right for you.
Your doing this right Joel. You will find your answers. No one with a heart like yours will continue to fumble in the darkness of confusion for long. Just keep doing what you are doing and you will see what is true and not what you necessarily hope to be true.
Take care
Dave
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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seven006
Joel,
I think you are an incredible person and I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. I think I understand what you are going through and why. If you have read any of my posts you will see that I am extremely open minded and try to look at issues from as many perspectives as possible. I would love for you to email me if you would like to discuss your thoughts and feelings further.
I do not want to see the theme of this particular thread diverted because there is a lot more to this whole story than most know or can be posted at this time. Once the legal threats of the watchtower are dealt with more can be revealed. The truth in this matter would make you sick. That is all I can say because the watchtower has put a legal strangle hold on this issue and no more information can be given to me or anyone else.
Please email me of you wish. Id love to talk to you about your feelings and concerns in regard to your situation.
Take care,
Dave