For those who would like a synopses of this issue for what ever reason, I would like to try and put as many of the confusing pieces together as I can. Before I go into my personal observations of as many issues that can be revealed I would like to make some statements that may help a few look at things a bit different.
First: I would like to address those who have sent me email and have not received a response as of yet. I will answer each and every one of them as soon as I can. I am not trying to ignore anyone. I hope some of the things I say in this post will answer some of your questions.
Second: As far as myself and a few others having inside information is this issue that cannot be revealed at this time I would like to ask those who that fact has upset to please be patient. I do not like it when things like this happen but in this case because of legal action brought on by the watchtower society to try and suppress the details of this volatile issue there are people who need to be protected by this information suppression effort. There is no kind of an "elite" group that is trying to play games or act superior to anyone. It basically breaks down to being in the right place at the right time and trying to help establish all the facts to get to the truth of this whole matter. In this process a bogus gag order was served on Danni and her partner Darryl and until that order is dealt with anything I may or may not know in this matter has to be suppressed for their protection.
Third: Because of information that I may or may not posses it is easier for me to come to some strong conclusions on the authenticity of statements made in this issue. If I am wrong and this issue is not a genuine in it's content I will be the first to admit it and the first to say I was made a big fool of. I do not see that happening. If it is, I would have learned one hell of a lesson just as the rest of us. I always apologize when I have found that I have made a mistake and I have no problem doing that. Again, I do not see that happening in this case.
Forth: It is absolutely impossible for anyone reading or commenting on this issue to have a complete understanding of the other persons perspective. Danni and Mark are new to this board and do not understand its complete nature. When a few people attached Danni it puzzled her and she had a hard time understanding why. Others were just asking questions and because of the previous negative comments she saw some of those questions as personal attacks. That is understandable. What she did not understand is that the contributors to this board have many different issues and reasons for posting what they do. There are some and most of us know who they are who's sole purpose is to disrupt and discredit any information that may shed a light on watchtower corruption. Without knowing who these people are because of being new to this board it was easy on Danni's part to feel we are all doubting her authenticity and real purpose for coming here. This is an open forum. Simon does not have a secret little "kingdom ministry quote code" that only allows those who are in absolute agreement to post here. It is in the best interest of the watchtower society to have some people cause a little trouble on this board.
Fifth: Most of us have family that are still in the religion. Simply put, we still love them and we do not see them in the same way that we see the leaders of the watchtower. It is sometimes hard to separate the two. Statements that blanket all JW's into one group of corrupt people will cause hurt feelings and instant reaction to those who are viewing these comments as including our loved ones and families. We have all made jokes about various characteristic of the JW people and will probably continue to do so. Those who have been out for a while probably do not necessarily see their family members this way but because of personal pain and experiences it brings some comfort to try and turn anger into humor. If those who are new in leaving the religion find this offensive, that is completely understandable. Give it some time and you might begin to understand why this is done. Please do not forget how your individual family members that are still in the religion would view those exJW's on this board whom they do not know. We are not their family, we are evil apostates in their eyes. A balanced view of all feelings in the big picture will help those new ones who are fresh out of the religion to understand.
SYNOPSES:
Danni appeared on this forum to gather a little information about a JW man that she was interest in. That is not the first time that something like this has happened on this and other exJW boards. She revealed that she was a police officer at this point and in a very short time she was given a highly compressed version of many of our thoughts about the JW religion and the problems we have had with it. She at first was defensive because of her feelings for this JW man and the good qualities she had observed in him. This fact, which I completely understand caused her to remain, for a little while, in a defensive mode.
I mention in a post that I once served as a police officer so she emailed me thinking I could better understand where she was coming from and give her answers that might not be as biased as others. This first email began to solidify my feelings of Danni's authenticity. By things that she said and her method of gathering facts convinced me as a one time cop that she was what she claimed to be. Because of the nature of law enforcement work, cop's become very suspicious of a lot of things. This little fact is a major contributing factor that has given the law enforcement occupation the highest divorce rate in the country.
I continued to observe how Danni went about her fact finding to get at the truth of her new found information. Her approach in doing this is dead on with how cops look for information. Once she took the time to investigate the issue that shocked her about child molestation and the cover up involved with it, she did as most cops do, she keep digging and researching.
It should be noted that out of any criminal action child molesters are looked at with the same contempt as a murder, in some cases even worse. Even in the prison system most prisoners have a separate section of solitary confinement that holds child molesters away from the general prison population. This is because they are looked at as the lowest of scum by the lowest of criminals. If they were to be let out to the general population they are in many prisons killed by the inmates. As crazy as that might sound, criminals have kids too. They see this as the worst of crimes. Murders are praised in prison, child molesters are killed.
It should also be noted that many cops see the child molester as a sick human being. They do not try to justify their actions but rather understand the sickness. One of the first thing's you learn as a police officer is the difference between a common criminal and the criminal actions of a sick minded individual.
Danni emailed me with information about a home visit that the JW man whom she was interested in set up for her. We all know this scenario, "you have shown some interest in bible matters to one of our members and we are here to see if you would like to learn more by the way of a home bible study." That is as normal as it gets.
At that meeting where the JW's came to Danni's door she began to ask questions about the child molestation cover up issue. She revealed herself as being a police officer and as such was interested in what they had to say. As in any case that is beyond the average "god" questions the JW visitors wished to have a little back up on this controversial issue and invited her to meet with the elders of the congregation.
Why they chose to do it in the back room during a meeting is beyond me. Why they chose to do it at a kingdom hall is understandable. The voice on the speaker phone has a big part to do with that. The information of who the person on the phone was is one of those little facts that cannot be reviled on this open forum at this time.
At this point it should be noted that some information was given to me before the gag order. I have not asked for, nor has any information about this issue been given since. Mark made his post and revealed a few facts in this issue that were suppressed by the gag order. Mark is not under the gag order but several points that he made and that I had previous knowledge before to the gag order matched up perfectly. That information along with some information that is still suppressed that I learned of before the order, again match up.
I could go into a long explanation of my thoughts about why the meeting was held during a regular meeting of the congregation but to put it in a nutshell, I see it as a simple fuck up by the elders. The term "dog and pony show" comes to mind but that view has upset a few people so forget I said it.
Danni asked for people to give her questions that she couldpresent during this meeting at the hall. I did not give Danni any questions. I hope she did not think I was abandoning her because of this. I wanted Danni's questions to be from Danni. I did not want the elders accusing her of being a representative of apostates and asking them questions outside of the main issue. I did type up some questions but decided not to send them. The elders did accuse her of being a representative of apostates (big surprise) and now I wish I had sent her the questions. According to what I have seen through the years, any question that might expose the watchtower of something not reminiscent of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is automatically look at as coming from apostates. That's one hell of a position to use to keep their people in the dark. Any question that is not both asked and answered by the watchtower writing staff is considered to be from apostates. I just love that game.
THE MEETING AT THE HALL:
I wish I could go into depth about the voice on the speaker phone and the legally unethical issues it brings up but I can't. So I won't. Cuz I don't want to. And I'm sticking by that.
Many of you have voice an objection to the way Darryl jumped on the elder who questioned his motives and the issue about speaking to members of the congregation. Before I address that issue I think it is important to note the "expressive language" was used by both sides. For those who do not think that any elders from any congregation, anywhere on the earth, have never, and would never use such language I have only one thing to say. Bullshit!
As far as a police officer using such language? Well, I was a cop and I don't remember using such language in a heated confrontation before, but my memory may be all fucked up on such things.
When dealing with low life scum and assholes all day they can tend to piss you off especially when those little "pukes" (cop word for pricks) lie to you.
Getting back to Darryl. It is Darryl's job as Danni's partner to cover her back in life and death situations on a daily basis. She as his partner will do the same. That bond and that loyalty is hard to shut off like a light switch even in the sacred halls of a holy place. I do not expect anyone to completely understand this. I do.
Both parties were on the defensive. When that happens, shit happens. The elders felt they were being attacked even though it was on their turf, on their terms, and with their surprise visitor via the speaker phone. The subject matter was controversial. If there is absolutely no cover up and no reason to try and hide a watchtower police that might be seen as illegal then I do not see why the elders got so defensive. A big ugly cop (sorry Darryl) getting in your face? Sure I can buy that. But the fact remains that if there was nothing to hide then there would have been nothing to get all heated about.
The elders were on the defensive because they know the JW policy of hiding facts about child molesters is wrong and they know absolutely that the policy has existed for a long time. Do elders try to hide wrong things to try and make them look clean and above reproach to the public?
Four words, Tacoma Dome Parking Scandal!
The meeting is over and Danni and Darryl leave with a tape that can absolutely prove what was said and by who. The fact is the conversation was on tape. The problem is, did the elders know they were being taped? Because of the gag order I do not know the answer to this question. But, because of the gag order I ask myself why does this tape bother the elders so much? Is it the elders it bothers, or the voice on the speaker phone that it bothers? Could the elders see the tape recorder and just not mention it the blind speaker phone voice? When the argument came up about leaving the tape behind did it shock the voice on the speaker phone and he then said "shit, this was taped?" Why would the voice care? Did the voice or the elders do something wrong? Does the voice know who he is and maybe the voice knows he did something unethical in the world of legal voice guys? Does the voice know that the other party should have had prior knowledge of the voice so they could ethically have their own secret voice guy to be present in a secret speaker voice capacity? I guess until the gag order is taken care of we will never know about the world of secret speaker phone voice people.
Some have said they have a hard time believing there was a guy on the speaker phone. The issue is watchtower child molestation policy. Dateline is involved (I know, they called me about this whole thing). It is becoming an issue that is being discussed by both JW's and non JW's alike. The watchtower is scared shitless right now because of it. An outsider who just happens to be a cop asks questions about this issue. A meeting is set up. A not so mysterious voice who identifies himself as being on the East coast starts to defend and explain. The voice finds out a tape has been made of the whole conversation.
The next day there is a gag order issued by the watchtower society. They are trying to make it look like two cops tried to kill an old JW man with a heart condition. Didn't the elders know that their beloved brother had a heart condition? If they did, who is to blame for this one? The addition of the secret speaker phone guy might have given them some kind of idea that this wasn't going to be your average "how many orgasms did you have" back room interrogation by elders. Too many screw ups and too many out of the ordinary facts make me believe this more than if it was your average back room pseudo psychology session.
The main issue is "not normal" for JW's to be dealing with. "Not normal" issues bring on "not normal" behavior. It is harder to make up "not normal" than it is to make up "normal."
This post is getting too long and Im tired of typing. If any one wants to hear my opinion on Mark and his story I will do that and post it later. I do believe him. I do understand his zeal in this issue and his desire to band everyone together to do something. I also understand those who have taken offense to that and why they have.
My fingers are tired.
I hope this help a few people to maybe look at his all a little different.
Take care,
Dave