Nittt-Gritty: They published a wrong definition with the best of intentions. They swept their mistake under the rug in a footnote with not so laudable intentions.
AlainAlam
JoinedPosts by AlainAlam
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38
Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"
by AlainAlam insorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.
i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.
but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!
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38
Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"
by AlainAlam insorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.
i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.
but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!
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AlainAlam
Nitty-Gritty of course "fruits" involve more than an apology. The fact that they correct/improve their beliefs/procedures is definitely to their credit. But it doesn't mean there's no need for an apology. If I stomp your foot, it's not sufficient for me to just stomp your foot - I should also admit my mistake and apologize.
Also, let's not get confused between two things. Supposing that the Bible is God's world and that the second definition of porneia is the correct one, the WT's first definition is wrong at two separate levels:
1) It is a wrong teaching in itself, so they're teaching something unrighteous. Readers were taught something wrong, but that's it. I can accept it that no apology is required. Readers were taught something wrong, now things have been rectified and we move on to something else.
2) It caused people to take action and divorce unscripturally, which put them in line for adultery when they remarried. Updating the definition doesn't tackle this issue. So, where are their fruits of repentance?
There's no way I can view this as any other thing than unrepentance/bad intent.
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Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"
by AlainAlam insorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.
i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.
but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!
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AlainAlam
3rdgen "the WTBT$ stated that homosexual acts committed by someone married were a perversion but were NOT scriptural grounds for divorce. The Aid book distributed in 1972 said so in print." I didn't know. No apologies there either.
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A chance for the unrighteous?
by AlainAlam inthe witnesses teach that the "unrighteous" are brought back to life in order to learn about god during the 1000-year reign.
i don't think that's a bible teaching, for the following reason:.
1) no verse says that.
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AlainAlam
Rev 19.5 speaks of "fierceness and wrath". Sounds like destroying evildoers, not teaching them and helping them dedicate their lives to Jehovah.
I don't believe the "relatively-righteous" thing either. I don't believe in the Bible anymore. I'm just trying to see where the Witnesses went wrong, doctrinally.
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Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"
by AlainAlam insorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.
i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.
but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!
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AlainAlam
wozza, you said "they accept and glorify the writings of Solomon in the bible , yet he died an apostate to the kingdom of god in his time!"
That would apply to all Christians, but in all cases, his writings were before his apostasy - or they should have been if we believe the Bible is inspired by God.
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Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?
by AlainAlam inhow do you determine whether to show a jw the truth or not?.
now some of you still believe in the bible.
to you the answer would be obvious - we preach to anyone as much as possible.
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AlainAlam
2+2=5 thanks for your input.
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Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?
by AlainAlam inhow do you determine whether to show a jw the truth or not?.
now some of you still believe in the bible.
to you the answer would be obvious - we preach to anyone as much as possible.
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AlainAlam
Magnum, thanks for your input. These are helpful techniques. I'll keep the "is there an opening?" factor in mind.
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Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?
by AlainAlam inhow do you determine whether to show a jw the truth or not?.
now some of you still believe in the bible.
to you the answer would be obvious - we preach to anyone as much as possible.
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AlainAlam
joe134cd, thank you.
cyberjesus, even if I try to show them the truth, it would be a calm, constructive discussion. Not attack or criticism. But no, now I'm not talk about someone who has questions. I'm talking about someone I'm in contact with but who doesn't have questions. I can decide to slowly lay the ground for more, or just let him/her be. I'm wondering what factors to take into consideration.
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Need help - How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?
by AlainAlam inhow do you determine whether to show a jw the truth or not?.
now some of you still believe in the bible.
to you the answer would be obvious - we preach to anyone as much as possible.
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AlainAlam
Hello everyone! I'd like to ask for your help with something. How do you determine whether to show a JW the truth or not?
Now some of you still believe in the Bible. To you the answer would be obvious - we preach to anyone as much as possible. But I don't believe in the Bible anymore, and would particularly appreciate an answer from atheist/agnostic/theistic/deistic exJWs.
I have conflicting feelings about this. On one hand, I've always had this feeling that "truth is always best". Even before becoming a Witness, I never (or perhaps very rarely ever) lied. It would follow that I believe leaving the JW would also be the best thing to do. I'm no longer religious about this "clinging to what is right" thing though, although I still care about authenticity.
On the other hand, some Witnesses are now are very happy "inside". This includes my (soon-to-be-ex-) wife. She's benefited a lot from being a Witness, and is blossoming "inside". She benefits from her relationship with God (as non-existent as he might be). She's very happy to learn about a god who understands everything about us, is slow to anger, appreciative, bigger than our hearts, to whom we can always turn for comfort or guidance, whom we can praise for all the beautiful things in life, etc. She finds real relief in the ransom and in thinking there's a basis upon which her sins (of which she is very aware) can be forgiven. She loves the publications and the advice they give; she feels safe knowing she can find guidance on almost anything. She's also in a an amazing, extremely loving congregation. The elders there are real shepherds, and the brothers and sisters. And, as you might have noticed, she is a very fragile person. So I can't imagine stripping her of both her faith in God/the ransom and the congregation's support. I think she would just die. But then I wonder if any system that is wrong can really be helpful. And then I think, well, maybe, everything in the world is messed up anyway.
I'm trying to express the conflict inside... Can anyone relate? :(
So, back to the subject. I've met some Witnesses who had serious doubts about "the Truth" - I didn't hesitate to offer help. Some Witnesses have contacted me inadvertently after I apostatized - I've told them I left because I'm no longer convinced this is the truth; I want them to see there is such a thing as a happy, friendly apostate. I'm still in contact with one Witness I work with - today he actually sent a personal brief message, and I replied cordially; the minute he indicates he might be curious about knowing more, I will talk. But in other cases, like my wife's, I'm really not so sure.
So, how do you determine whether to "preach" to a JW or not?
Note: Some might not be happy I said positive things about JW, turning to Jehovah, the publications, the elders, the congregation my wife is in, etc. I generally don't mind criticism and personal attacks, I've had my share of it when I was a Witness and grew thick-skinned. But please spare me the trolling, just for this post.
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38
Evidence of WT bad intent - How they handled changing the meaning of "porneia"
by AlainAlam insorry, long post :) i'm considering evidence that at least at some point, the gb/watchtower had bad intentions.
i would like to share the following: *** w74 11/15 p. 703 questions from readers ***do lewd practices on the part of a married person toward that one’s own mate constitute a scriptural basis for the offended mate to get a divorce?there are times when lewd practices within the marriage arrangement would provide a basis for a scriptural divorce.. based on this, some jw chose to divorce.
but then:*** w83 3/15 p. 30 honor godly marriage!
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AlainAlam
JWTom, thanks for bringing this up. First time I hear about it. As far as I know, the oldest reference to pornography and disfellowshipping is the '06 QfR. What did the elders use to do before that? Were there any instructions? I tried to look up letters to the elders online, but I couldn't find anything relevant.