Posts by EyesOpenHeartBroken

26

Disfellowshipped Brother Gives Public Talk in Kingdom Hall

by The Searcher in

jw
friends

absolutely beautiful!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vbmfx4isku.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

As a person who always paid attention and listened to what was being said, I recall hearing a number of talks that struck me immediately as not very "JW-ish" but very "Christian-ish". Even when I was fully in, these were always the best--probably because they created less cognitive dissonance than talks that featured the Old Testament. In the liberal area I grew up in, I doubt this talk would have been shut down --maybe a few raised eyebrows or "counsel" afterward for the brother to stick closer to the outline.

Unfortunately, when awake or more liberal JW elders do this, I think it just pulls doubters back into the ranks. If you want to wake people up, be a by-the-book, Old Testament lovin', WT rule quoting and enforcing elder. Who do you think wakes more people: Anthony Morris III on a rant or Mark Sanderson delivering a kind and balanced talk on brotherly love?

Just a thought....I know I would have woken a lot sooner if I hadn't been raised by loving and liberal JWs and grown up surrounded by liberal JWs. I woke as an adult when we moved to another area and the congregation was loaded with controlling, judgmental, meddling by-the-book elders and elderettes....and then the tight pants and colored socks talk...that was it for me.

15

Is it possible that someone who gives really gushing comments might still be awake?

by Isambard Crater in

jw
friends

of the 50% of congregants who regularly participate, many of them give gushing answers about how appreciative they are, how wonderful jw.org is and so on, which makes me think nobody in my congregation is awake.

but maybe it's possible for someone who comes across as super spiritual to be awake?

i can't see how, though, as surely it's emotionally draining to fake it like that?

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Who knows? If a person was awake and wanting to stay "under cover", then I suppose that's how to do it.

i know a fair amount of these gushing types, and it seems to me that it is more of a one-up-manship contest. Who can say the most gushy things about the GB, jw.org, the convention, meetings, etc. ? The gushing I have seen is always over something organizational--man made! I rarely hear gushing about Jehovah or Jesus.

25

Are There Many JWs That Have Actually Left?

by minimus in

jw
friends

it seems that most people who have been witnesses that i've known in the last 20 years are still jws.

they may not be as zealous as before but they still remain as jehovah's witnesses.

.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Hi Notalone,

I hope that the scenarios you have posted become more the trend. Seeing whole multigenerational JW families leave WT, could wake up a lot of the more reasonable ones.

Unfortunately, many of the born ins I see leave the WT seem to have never really believed in it from the start. Or they have "fallen into sin". Or they fade so quietly that it makes no impact.

33

What are some things JWs re-name to make themselves different than Christians?

by NikL in

jw
friends

jws re-name things so they seem like they are different than other religions.

(of course we know they are different but that's another story).

i was just thinking about those things where they are like most everyone else in christendom but the re-name it to seem different.. for example god forbid they have a church, it's a "kingdom hall".. they don't have pastors and deacons they have "elders" and "ministerial servants".. they don't have tithing but they will have family heads fill out a paper saying how much they can contribute on a monthly basis (not sure if there is a name for that...unless it's tithing.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

"Speaking the pure language" = using all the above mentioned WT engineered words fluently and fluidly

25

Are There Many JWs That Have Actually Left?

by minimus in

jw
friends

it seems that most people who have been witnesses that i've known in the last 20 years are still jws.

they may not be as zealous as before but they still remain as jehovah's witnesses.

.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

This is anecdotal of course, but my observation of born-in JWs is about a 1/3 retention rate. I grew up in a fairly large western U.S. city with a lot congregations. Within my generation X in that city, at least 3/4 are faded or df'd. Most have easily maintained relationships with still in family. Most of the congs in that city only had about 50% of their publishers living in their territory boundaries--so many people just attended where they wanted (even elders). So fading was pretty easily done and keeping track of of who was actually "in" was pretty loose.

Conversely, my husband grew up in a small Midwest town surrounded by rural farmland. Only one congregation within a radius of one hour drive. Very little movement in the area. Entire congregation are born ins. 3-4 generations in each family in the same congregation, so less people leave. Most are related to each other by blood or marriage, so the congregation and their family are kind of one in the same. And those who get df'd seem to return for reinstatement, probably because they are more anchored to the religion. Also, everybody knows everybody's business, so there isn't really the option of discreetly associating with faded or df'd family. Who knows how many are mentally out though.

Now we are in a different area than either of us grew up in, but it's a lot closer in JW practice to the area my husband grew up in. I have to say it has been both suffocating and eye-opening. I think it hastened my awakening to the TTATT. Growing up in a looser, more liberal JW world kept me loyal and believing WT was a reasonable religion.

Also, anecdotally, Generation X born in men in my area are not "reaching out". Positions are mostly held by baby boomers and old timers, with a few uber young men who still live at home. The family men keep responsibilities in cong minimal to none.

27

Talked to a JW at a literature stand today

by nevermind in

guys,.

i need your help in trying to wrap my head around this strange experience i had today talking with a jw lady sitting at a literature table in a busy outdoor shopping center.. i'm a very shy person, but i always wanted to ask these jws at their literature stands questions to start them thinking about the validity of watchtower teaching.

i finally mustered my strength today to talk to this jw lady.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

You may as well have been talking to my long time pioneer mother. Asking her these questions, she will give these exact justifications. She is really good at filtering and shoving square pegs into round holes by knocking off the sharp corners. And by the way, she is very intelligent. I find that it is more emotionally driven than cognitive.

The problem is that because the GB and org has gained their complete trust and allegiance, they don't actually stop and think about contradictions they read or experience. Only when the cognitive dissonance becomes unbearable emotionally, will a JW start to question the org.

Presenting facts really has little effect on most JWs.

15

2 sisters called today

by stan livedeath in

ive lived here 7 months now--and today was the 4th time some dubs have called--while i was at home.. they were probably about 60-70.. after i let one do her simple leaflet presentation--i told them i used to be a jw--but left over 40 years ago.

and that i held the watchtower responsible for the break up of my family: and discussed shunning.. but the main thing i wanted to discuss--was the sale of their kingdom hall.

they confirmed a sale was going through.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Stan- You may have made more impact than you think. The older JWs DO care about the money. They have been the ones financing both the borg and their local KH for all these years, and they have a certain expectation of how that money is spent. The young JWs in general are not big money contributors. In most congregations it is the elders and the old folks that are regular with donations. Add that to the fact that most old folks have a fixed income and I guarantee they think about the money.

And I agree that staying 30 minutes at your door, when you already told them you were DF says something about their level of interest in what you had to say. Well done!

26

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1

by doubtfull1799 in

i was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.

my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.

one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

True enough. The field service hours are the bottom line to defining someone's spirituality, goodness, and worth in the org. (And money is a close second).

I know of two kind-hearted, truly "spiritual" young pioneer sisters who decided to incorporate into their ministry looking in on the elderly. Their idea was that they kept a list and systematically visited once a week with a hot meal and encouraging words and offered to do a chore or two. These elderly ones were truly touched and appreciative. In fact, one widow mentioned that she was visited by these sisters more than her only son (he was an elder in a neighboring congregation, 10 minute drive to mom's house).

As you might expect, a short time later the 2 pioneer sisters were reprimanded by the elders for "running a Meals on Wheels". No more looking after widows. Back to only recruiting for the org. I'm guessing the elder son from the other congregation had something to do with it.

So, yes, I wholeheartedly agree with the OPs observations.

27

A Beard Maverick

by EyesOpenHeartBroken in

so i went to the kh for the first time in a month, and the first brother in our congregation has grown a full beard.

i am in a western u.s. semi-rural area in a cong with an extremely conservative and controlling elder body.

oddly enough, it seemed like people were going out of their way to converse with him and act like they didn't notice the beard or they complimented the beard.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Thanks for all the great responses! Only surrounding JW land could there be so much discussion on men's facial hair styling. Funny how much judgement beards have brought in over the years--always a sign of a rebellious heart, LOL!

27

A Beard Maverick

by EyesOpenHeartBroken in

so i went to the kh for the first time in a month, and the first brother in our congregation has grown a full beard.

i am in a western u.s. semi-rural area in a cong with an extremely conservative and controlling elder body.

oddly enough, it seemed like people were going out of their way to converse with him and act like they didn't notice the beard or they complimented the beard.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

So I went to the KH for the first time in a month, and the first brother in our congregation has grown a full beard. I am in a western U.S. semi-rural area in a cong with an extremely conservative and controlling elder body. Oddly enough, it seemed like people were going out of their way to converse with him and act like they didn't notice the beard or they complimented the beard. No negative feedback, but certainly a lot of interest in it.

Curious to see how it will develop...

If the point of the infamous "Beard article" was to confuse and distract the rank and file, then I think WT may get some distance out of this.

Meantime, back at headquarters....