Phizzy, you are asking a question that I've had occasion to think about lately. Some JWs are "mature" in JW speak but for the most part, they do tend to be backwards socially. I think this could apply to a lot of religious groups, if they try to keep themselves "separate" from the world. Just an observation that seems true for my location.
Spiral
JoinedPosts by Spiral
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Do JW's ever really grow up ?
by Phizzy ini ask the above because of my personal experience.
as a born-in i was naive, socially inept and had never really thought deeply about anything.. i was also unable to accept arguments based upon reason and facts.. just like a child.. it was only after freeing myself from the mind-control of the jw cult that i educated myself and matured as a person to being (almost) an adult.. jw's attitudes and their inability to debate in any meaningful way, (they could start by actually listening),means they have not grown up..
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Christians made me stop believing in the Bible
by jws ini'm agnostic.
there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.
after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.
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Spiral
Yes! I have to say that living WITHOUT the bible is no doubt a plus. For various reasons that people and scientists speculate about, people love the bible like an idol, or a good luck charm. Doesn't matter what it really says.
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Christians made me stop believing in the Bible
by jws ini'm agnostic.
there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.
after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.
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Spiral
"Heaven: Growing up as a JW, I had issues with many things not only within the JW religion, but other religions too and the Bible itself. Theodicy was a big one and the misogyny. I was born with a logical mind. So much didn't add up for me including a lot of things having to do with math (eg: JWs claimed to be preaching to all the inhabited Earth. This is false. The math just doesn't add up)."
@Heaven: I used to wonder the same thing as a kid! Still do, if you think about it, the whole preaching to the entire earth is really just chasing your tail (mathmatically) because the longer you wait for "the end" the more people there are to preach too. You could never catch up.
@JWS: I so relate to all of what you are saying. I have gone through the same thought process and now I am an athiest. I am reading (very carefully) the book I mentioned in my previous post (The God Delusion). Wow! All those doubts we all had have a real logical basis. Once you're not willing to believe what other people (who just want to control you) believe, it's a weight off your back. At least, that's how I feel about it.
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Christians made me stop believing in the Bible
by jws ini'm agnostic.
there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.
after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.
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Spiral
Here's an excellent read: The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. He lays all of these arguments out (along with so many more) in such a way you can't understand why anyone would believe it - but then he explains theories about why they do. Fascinating!
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Coming to a Kingdom Hall near you
by FatFreek 2005 inputting it simply, kingdom halls are no longer the property of a local group of the folks that paid for and constructed it.
the lender, the watchtower society, now says that once a mortgage is satisfied, that congregation must then declare a resolution which says it will continue to make payments, usually equal to the amount they were paying on the mortgage.
and they must do so indefinitely.
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Spiral
William Penwell
can you imagine---- dubs who may have donated for years towards building a kingdumb hall----and understandably feeling a close bond with it-----only to have the ownership taken by the watchtower-------whilst still having to donate the same amount!
I know a lot of them that would go along with this without question. The WT would spin it that the money is needed to go where the need is greater and most of the rank and file dubs would go along with it.
I know the WT does not tithe but they put a heavy guilt trip on to the members to contribute as much as they can to the KIngdum work. My parents would give a fair amount from the pension money to the Kingdum work.
What I am seeing locally is so sad..... the JWs here are so uneducated (sorry, but that's the only way I can describe it, and we all know why that is) that they really can't understand what this all means. Most of the congregation is pretty poor but they still give because they think it is for the "worldwide work" as in good for everyone. If you don't understand how the real estate industry works you can't see what's right in front of you.
I think this is an undercover "tithe" on a group basis. It's brilliant, really. Meanwhile, they keep them so busy with their "time tithe" that they don't have time to contemplate the meaning of what's in front of them.
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Is this true
by pepperheart inhi ive heard a romour that any jws that want a printed copy of the new song book to use at the kh will have to order one otherwise they will not get one.ithink they are trying to make people use tablets to view the song book.
as the new songbook is only 154 pages is this yet another money saving event in the borg .
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Spiral
The tablet thing is just ridiculous. Around 2000 I remember they were still preaching the internet was baaaaaad and my mother and her fellow senior sisters were quite righteous because they knew nothing of the internet or about computers.
Now, the seniors have been thrown under the bus, electronically, BIG TIME.
When I found out about it I went and bought my mother an ipad - not cheap, yes, but it's what I have and that seems fair. We took it to the KH because I wanted to make a statement. (And yes, it was noticed by the "special ones" at the hall, lol)
My mother had been complaining that people at the hall had literature and "things" she didn't have and she felt left out. I hadn't been in about 10 years so I had no idea. But I was STEAMING MAD that they would do this to the elderly, everyone else so righteous and she, after all those years of faithful service, didn't even have "what she needed for meeting" and couldn't figure out how to get it. Now, when we go (ugh) we take the ipad just to make a point, but I print the WT for her as well.
At home she listens to music (oldies, no "kingdom" music) and plays solitaire and word search on the tablet. She enjoys it (limited use, yes, but she has fun) and she feels more included.
Sheesh!
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More money-grubbing: Give us your money even if you can't afford food
by bohm inthe message would appear to be that jehovah needs money more than that old lady needs food:.
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Spiral
And by the way, what does being in a wheelchair needing oxygen have to do with being infertile? (see paragraph 15)
And paragraph 17 about "low finances" (who writes this stuff?) says if you give your all someone else will pick up the slack and feed you. And yet, the bOrg has no charity, no soup kitchen, no senior program in place to help the elderly.
Unbelievable!
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More money-grubbing: Give us your money even if you can't afford food
by bohm inthe message would appear to be that jehovah needs money more than that old lady needs food:.
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Spiral
@Splash That's what I thought, but if they hear you have $$$$ they want to "suggest" how you use it.
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More money-grubbing: Give us your money even if you can't afford food
by bohm inthe message would appear to be that jehovah needs money more than that old lady needs food:.
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Spiral
I don't know what's more disgusting, the fact that they openly demand money or the fact that the JWs don't SEE how disgraceful this is anymore.
My mother made a big contribution once (before I controlled the money).
A couple of years ago she was asked to make another large contribution. I told the brothers "a few years ago she made a large contribution and that's all that's going to happen, she needs to keep her money. I need it to care for her." Uncomfortable silence followed, but after that they haven't asked again.
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Elder asking for help
by untruth inthis is my first time posting on here so i’m not sure where to start.
i’m trying to keep it as short as possible since i could expand much more.
i’ve been in the process of waking up in the last year and a half.
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Spiral
Untruth, what a situation, I have so much respect for you in this tough situation.
I didn't go through the same (turns out Mr. Spiral was having doubts for a long time too!) but I have to agree with Greybeard on this one, other comments have been on point too I'm sure.
I'm wondering, is it possible you can move/transfer jobs to a new and exciting place? If you get your wife away from her usual group, changing your reality and doing something fun and new, she might see things in a whole new light. Sometimes, a "change of venue" is what's needed to see things from a new perspective.
I can tell you one thing, it's very true that a lot of JWs are really strict with themselves until they get into their late 50s or 60s, suddenly they wake up a bit and say WTF did I do wasting all these years???? I have seen this SEVERAL times this year, and it's heartbreaking to see people you know and like (but not really my friends, because the bOrg always came first) suddenly realize they've been duped. Good for you for waking up now!!!