Posts by Spiral

12

1 Step Forward and 3 Steps Back: Trying to Get My Mom to See 'The Light' (Oh the Irony!)

by Sorry in

recently, my mother's been hounding me to do personal study (i think she's slowly realizing i'm becoming disillusioned with the organization and is trying to reign me back in).

i don't know what made me do this, but i decided to test the waters by challenging 'new light'.

she asked me what i learned in personal study, so i brought up organ transplants and the wt flip floppy stance on them (thanks jwfacts!).

Spiral

Hi Sorry,

First, don't be sorry. You're on the right track. You are not the crazy one.

Second, your mom wanted you to do "personal study". As NotAlone mentioned, witnesses (these days) really don't like to study, and they really don't know what it means. What your mother really meant was, read the latest magazine over and over again until you are brainwashed. She doesn't see that (unlike earlier decades, pre-1980, when the JWs really did take pride in study) they've all been dumbed-down to the point that they can't really think and reason at all. That's where the mantra "listen, obey, and be blessed" comes from. There's no studying necessary for that.

So, I say keep studying and bringing up questions (go carefully as your situation warrants, they can only take a little bit at a time) if you are asked about it. My thought is that your family will stop asking you about your personal study, as they'll see that it brings up more questions than answers.

193

Great Tribulation and Trump

by TakeOffTheCrown in

please, let's discuss this subject without attacking one another.. it appears that trump has won a victory that no one expected.

is it possible that trump may play a part in the great tribulation?.

there are some who believe trump is one of the most unqualified of men to ever be elected president of the united states.

Spiral

Simon: It always strikes me as incredibly self-centered of people in a wealthy, secure democracy talking about "the great tribulation" as though nothing bad happens in the world unless and until something bad happens to them.

Thank you, and yes, why do we think in the US or in the "western" world that nothing matters on a global scale unless it happens to us? JWs are the same way. People starving all over the world, working for less than nothing, earthquakes, economic issues, you name it, but none of that matters to God's great plan, unless it happens to "us" here in the "western" world.

31

More bad news for the Organisation in Australia

by no-zombie in

it appears the the commonwealth government is bringing in a national compensation scheme for victims of institutional child sexual abuse with individuals able to claim up to $150,000 each.

it's clear that the australian government will not be able to fund this program without serious money from the offending churches.

so it's bad news for the organization today.. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-04/government-announces-redress-for-abuse-victims/7996092.

Spiral

Pubsinger

Suddenly all KHs in Australia will belong to individual congregations again!

Good point!

34

Latest from Australian Royal Commission

by gerry in

just received this update.

http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=8e90fa1e64ebb08847cc04916&id=fcec86ae2b&e=0670c7af59.

Spiral

@jonahstourguide, do you mean no one is even talking, privately? I wonder how long that can go on before people just explode.

31

1000 Years is Like 1 Day?

by Sorry in

anyone else hear about this.

as all j-dubs know, whenever someone complains about how long the "new system" is taking too arrive, they use the excuse that jehovah works on his own time.

quite a few times during the public talks, i've heard speakers say the phrase "1000 years to us is only one day to jehovah" (my parents never stop talking about this).

Spiral

I remember this. Just a great way to explain why God never does anything to help humans, who are stuck suffering in slow-motion. Exquisite torture for the humans, while the almighty is up in heaven somewhere oblivious to the day to day consequences of his indecisiveness.

Not a very satisfying God to put your faith in, I'd say. That's why I am an athiest.

34

Latest from Australian Royal Commission

by gerry in

just received this update.

http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=8e90fa1e64ebb08847cc04916&id=fcec86ae2b&e=0670c7af59.

Spiral

Here's a question for anyone in Australia..... how much news coverage is all this getting locally? What is the effect on the congregations?

Here in the US, if you manage to bring it up to any JWs you are shut down totally, as if any news from Australia is from another planet and doesn't matter. (Non-witnesses don't feel that way, of course. BUT we don't see this news in the US like you would in Australia, unfortunately.)

I would think that this would cause more than a little consternation in the Australian congregations. And how would you defend this to people out in service?

Go, ARC, go!

23

With up to 70% of young ones leaving what's the future of the jw's?

by karter in

jw
friends

they wlll always have new people coming in but the majority of the congro's are getting older particularly the inner city ones were it is expensive to live.

they are struggling to get men to be elders and m.s's and this can only get worse as very few young ones stay around.

karter..

Spiral

scratchme1010 Seems like people are still having a hard time understanding that the WT is no longer relying on their people, nor on their preaching to thrive financially. They have a real estate business that is thriving and growing, so they can't care less if they lose people in the long run as that's no longer what they rely on to survive.

I agree. In the end, as long as the income flows from the real estate business, they (meaning, the smarter businessmen hinding behind the GB) probably don't really care about what the publisher numbers are. If they can survive the financial fallout of what might be an upcoming child abuse scandal, they will think they are "set".

80

Major Doctrinal Changes Must Be On The Way

by notsurewheretogo in

the statement in the article "who is leading gods people today?

" in the feb 17th study edition of the wt is very interesting.. it states: ""the g.b.

is neither inspired nor infallible" ..we can err .in doctrinal matters....".

Spiral

It would be pretty sad if they have to point at the ARC and the UK charity commission investigations as the beginning of persecuting "God's loyal ones" - given that the basis of the persecution is child abuse. I wouldn't call that fulfillment of "God's will" because it's just..... disgusting and creepy.

33

Pyramid Schemes

by schnell in

several years ago, i was introduced to a "wonderful" company called fortune hi tech marketing by a brother and his wife.

they had been introduced by a former sheriff who claims he had researched the company and found no leins or judgments, and that former sheriff had been brought in by a pastor.

you can read what happened with fhtm on wikipedia if you so desire.. this whole new idea of multilevel marketing had my brain reeling, though, and soon enough, i actually signed up with none other than prepaid legal.

Spiral

Oh, over the years I can remember so many witnesses involved in so many "be your own boss" schemes, from vitamins, meleleuca, cooking utensils, makeup, jewelry, cleaning products, you name it.

I think most just needed to make more money and were naive. Sad, because more money was spent than earned.

Poverty is not fun, spiritual, or "keeping it simple". Having to deal with $$$ shortage every month is hardly a simple carefree life!

39

Why Is it the Girls who Hang in There?

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

having seen many, many people leave the org over the years, i have to say that, when it comes to married couples, it's almost always the man who makes the first move to leave.

conversely, when it comes to being converted into the witnesses, more often than not it's the wife who joins up first.

although that wasn't the case with my own parents, my father became converted and my mother followed very reluctantly..

Spiral

I might be the exception because I left first. But, a big part of me leaving was just getting tired of having to bow to elders, some of whom (in my area) could hardly read well enough to do a bible reading, but thought they knew everything about me and what I should be doing. And, why believe the Bible (an ancient, clearly flawed book of writings) and give that power over your daily life?

I've always been an independent thinker, though, and truthfully, was never very popular in JW land.

Mr. Spiral is 4th gen JW so it was harder for him, but as it turns out once I said enough he was fine with it (and promptly grew a beard, lol). We've never been happier and the relatives really can't stand it.

I do think a lot of women feel powerless and need structure and tribe so they look for a religion. There are a lot of people (not just women, but perhaps more women because of social constraints) who need to feel included in something "bigger" than they are as a "mere" human, to guide them through life's "mysteries". Lately I have been really surprised and puzzled to observe how women will play along when, obviously, they are smarter than the particular men involved. (You'll have to take my word for that part.)

Hopefully, as society evolves women will continue to gain more power. I hope for that for my grandchildren!