Posts by Spiral

28

Mental Illness among JW's

by Victor in

disclaimer: this article has some broad generalizations that will have exceptions to what is stated.

this is the only way i can even attempt to address the topic.

i've looked for scholarly articles published on peer reviewed journals for years.

I've known many mentally ill JWs. It's sad because the ones that convert are looking for a coping mechanism, and instead, they just dig themselves in deeper. The bOrg's cycle of guilt/shame/redemption appeals to some people because that's all they know. For the born-ins, that cycle seems normal behavior that they learned from their parents.

One time, years ago, an elder got a book about emotional hygiene (I think, something like that) and really thought it would help several in the congregation. He went to the book store and bought a dozen copies and passed them around. He meant well and the effort was appreciated. This was before it was considered (sorta) okay to get antidepressants. Counseling was usually considered taboo.

The CO found out and was livid. He made him apologize from the stage and collect the books back. It was a disaster because it was a small common sense dent into the crazy wall but he was cut off at the knees.

I think about that a lot - ALL of those people had problems, one ended up in prison, another committed suicide, etc. The brother was not a counselor but he was trying to get them help (and to go for free counseling - none of them had money) but the whole effort was shut down. And that CO, I'm sure he doesn't even remember or care.

55

Do Any Of You Still Think Trump Was Working With The Russians?

by minimus in

jw
friends

it seems some people still maintain that trump will try to get help from the russians “again”..

Spiral

They are working him. I think he's clueless.

68

Unwritten, congregational 'rules'

by Thetruthhurts in

what were some of yours?

the big one in our hall was no frontal hugs!

these were generally thought of as inappropriate, only side hugs should be given between sisters and brothers.

Spiral

All these rules! Most are so familiar. And yes, the flashbacks!

One KH we went to when my son was little, the elder usually doing the meeting for service on Saturday was such a jerk. His wife (elderette pioneer with no studies) wouldn't come to the service meeting at all (they lived a bit far away) but would call the KH at 9:25 to ask where to meet the group. It was ridiculous.

So, his wife won't drive in, but he'd call out anyone who was late (even just a minute or two) from the front while doing the day's text when they walked in.

One time I was a couple of minutes late, and he called me out from the front making a snide comment about people coming late. Everyone turned around and looked at me.

I picked my son up and walked right back out of the KH and went home. I thought, forget this!

Later he sorta kinda tried to talk to me about it but never apologized. I never went to service again when he was in charge.

I guess that experience was the beginning of my waking up!

62

Why do Americans have to pay so much for College???

by RubaDub in

jw
friends

i know there is a huge college/university lobby here in the us that lives off of students paying, in some cases, enormous amounts of money just to attend.. putting politics aside, if that is possible, (and i am not a bernie sanders guy by any means), but how can we pay for pre-kindergarten, kindergarten, elementary school, junior high, high school, and then throw a huge debt to someone who wants to continue learning?

can't the us (public and state universities) afford four more years for young people to get on a career path without having to, in some cases, take out a mortgage/loan more than the cost of some homes?

then, (and nothing against immigrants, i am married to one), but then the us has to "import" students from other countries to fill the needs that we should be supplying here.

Spiral

@nowwhat? That's the other problem! High tuitions and profit - where does it end?

62

Why do Americans have to pay so much for College???

by RubaDub in

jw
friends

i know there is a huge college/university lobby here in the us that lives off of students paying, in some cases, enormous amounts of money just to attend.. putting politics aside, if that is possible, (and i am not a bernie sanders guy by any means), but how can we pay for pre-kindergarten, kindergarten, elementary school, junior high, high school, and then throw a huge debt to someone who wants to continue learning?

can't the us (public and state universities) afford four more years for young people to get on a career path without having to, in some cases, take out a mortgage/loan more than the cost of some homes?

then, (and nothing against immigrants, i am married to one), but then the us has to "import" students from other countries to fill the needs that we should be supplying here.

Spiral

MrMustand, I just mean that people should be able to access education that interests and benefits them without having to justify it, or pay a big chunk of change.

If someone wants to study literature or poetry or one of the sciences for their own interest, they should be able to without a huge cost.

Perhaps the world would be just a bit better if people could study the things they want to study. And continue to study throughout their life.

62

Why do Americans have to pay so much for College???

by RubaDub in

jw
friends

i know there is a huge college/university lobby here in the us that lives off of students paying, in some cases, enormous amounts of money just to attend.. putting politics aside, if that is possible, (and i am not a bernie sanders guy by any means), but how can we pay for pre-kindergarten, kindergarten, elementary school, junior high, high school, and then throw a huge debt to someone who wants to continue learning?

can't the us (public and state universities) afford four more years for young people to get on a career path without having to, in some cases, take out a mortgage/loan more than the cost of some homes?

then, (and nothing against immigrants, i am married to one), but then the us has to "import" students from other countries to fill the needs that we should be supplying here.

Spiral

Our attitude about education is very dysfunctional in the US. We think two limiting things: One, education needs to "pay" for itself (in dollars) in the workplace. So, if you need higher education or training to do a job, it should cost the student a significant amount. Two, parts of our society believe only the privileged should have access to higher education. The worker bees should only do what we think is "blue collar" work and only need the education to succeed in what is (incorrectly) perceived as low level jobs.

Education for the benefit of society isn't even acknowledged as a right for the average citizen.

So, since we think everything should be linked to profit, higher quality education for most people doesn't matter. The minority who do get a good quality higher education often have that sense of entitlement that we are all acquainted with.

We've shot ourselves in the foot in this matter (among so many other things).

38

How Many Here Remember Hearing Details from the Platform on Why a Person was Reproved or DF'd ???

by RubaDub in

i just had this flashback when commenting on another thread about how they used to announce reproof or dfing from the platform.

at least in our congregation, it was a dramatic event (this is what i can remember from back in the mid-late 60's or early 70's when i was a kid).. at the end of the service meeting, just before singing the final song, the brother would announce, "we have a letter that must be read.

the "congregation servant" (my grandfather or later my father) would then slowly walk from the back of the kh to the platform.

Spiral

@cofty, and yet they never seem to see the irony that they put people in this position. Getting reinstated just to never be seen again, but can be with family.

If they had any spiritual understanding whatsoever, they rank and file would question the need for the process.

44

Allowed?

by punkofnice in

a jobo i know has cancer.

her son goes and cleans her house and generally cares for her.

so does another non-jobo relative.. the congregation, interestingly, has shown very little support apart from the odd one rabbiting on about 'bible promises this and that'.. so, the co visited and said, 'but your son is an apostate(tm).

Spiral

Road to Nowhere: Family business. PERIOD

I was just told that my end of life directive should list an elder I hardly know over pimo and df children.

THIS kind of thing is appalling. I've seen it here. How dare they suggest that the "brothers" (ugh) are a better person to have legal authority over a person than their own children, who just happen to not be JWs. Somehow, that can't be legal. It's certainly not appropriate.

I can't believe the sheep follow along with this and don't think anything about it. No common sense whatsoever.

44

Allowed?

by punkofnice in

a jobo i know has cancer.

her son goes and cleans her house and generally cares for her.

so does another non-jobo relative.. the congregation, interestingly, has shown very little support apart from the odd one rabbiting on about 'bible promises this and that'.. so, the co visited and said, 'but your son is an apostate(tm).

Spiral

Several sick and elderly people where I am - PIMI ones. But no one is organized to help them at all. Their relatives, for the most part, don’t do much either. A couple I know would go hungry if it wasn’t for meals on wheels (county delivering a meal every day for older people).

When we were younger, the congregation would organize some help. Now, if it’s not about service or cart sitting, nothing is done on a congregational level. Somehow, they don’t think it’s their duty. I often wonder what’s happened to these JWs. No feeling left.

The worldly government and local churches, by contrast, have lots of services available.

10

Jehovah's Witnesses Mega Halls

by RolRod in

i was thinking about this recently.

the society owns all the kingdom halls and with desperate need of money, their closing down and selling off properties.

consolidating congregations seems to be the order of the day.

Spiral

@Sir82, I also agree with you. But the bOrg seems to be going in two different directions at the moment.

Years ago, the elders were into everyone's business, and you couldn't sneeze without permission. It was unthinkable not to have book studies and assigned service groups.

They still like to maintain this type of control, but something - perhaps a pressing need to make money, and move it around where it can't be found - seems to be driving the real estate decisions they are making. 13 years ago, where we were, the bOrg sold a nice double KH. No pressing reason to do it (plenty of donating attendees) and no replacements were ever made. Created a huge burden on the scattered rank and file (especially the older ones) and many people ultimately faded away. Why did they do it? The only reason had to be $$$$. The WT held the title and all the money went straight to them.

So although I'm sure they want to keep controlling everyone, there seems to be an urgent profit motive here. An urban KH in a good location is just ripe for the picking. A rural hall, not so much. So perhaps trying to fool city publishers into going to a megachurch is just a way to spin the real situation.