I wrote a letter asking since Jesus was Michael , is it possible that he was proving two things at once . That both men and angels can be faithful. The response was basically a warning not to push ahead etc. etc. It was'nt too long before the idea showed up in the WT. I never wrote again except to ask their help when my "pioneer" wife left me. Their response was "boiler plate" but it was the rubber stamp at the bottom that got me the most ........"Your Brothers, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society"
Siddhashunyata
JoinedPosts by Siddhashunyata
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Has anyone ever personally written to the Society?
by seeitallclearlynow ini've been listening to marlene mercado's audio testimony on jwinfoline while reading and posting here today; and it reminded me that i had written to the society once, years ago, and i received a response.
the response made me angry with them, although they were agreeing with me on something that i was complaining about.
what made me angry was that they made no acknowledgment that they put a lot of pressure on the brothers to reach out and even after they have attained an office of oversight, a lot more pressure is put on the elders and servants to do more, do just so, etc....they claimed that it was my elder husband's own fault that he was barely ever home, and when he was, he was in his den or on the phone with someone who couldn't make any decisions on their own.
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Fistfights at the KH/ assembly hall.
by avishai inanother topic brought this up.
my dad slugged a guy who beat up his own wife, my dad's childhood friend, during the intermission right after the public talk.
which my dad gave, he was guest speaker.
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Siddhashunyata
Descender, I'm still laughing....... thanks.
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What is more important to understand...
by Siddhashunyata inmoral principles, doctrine , prophecy , ourselves ?
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Siddhashunyata
zen nudist,
Excellent description of what's going on. We are really dealing with getting beyond the distortions of language, and the distortions of perception . In your illustration, neither party may have the "real" shapes.
The condition would be humorous if it was not so tragic. Divorce, violence etc.
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Fistfights at the KH/ assembly hall.
by avishai inanother topic brought this up.
my dad slugged a guy who beat up his own wife, my dad's childhood friend, during the intermission right after the public talk.
which my dad gave, he was guest speaker.
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Siddhashunyata
Twice, once at a quick build an Elder grabbed and shoved a young brother from another congregation because he had a "goatee" and the Elder felt he was there to disrupt the build. Turned out the young brother had gone to the Elders in his own congregation and they gave him their blessing and encouraged him to go the that quick build. The young brother was very sincere. When this happened I suggested that each congregation post on their "information" board how their respective body of elders felt about various topics such as beards, short skirts, movies etc. That way a person would know the "conscience" of the Elders for that particular congregation and could decide if they wanted to be there. That suggestion went over like a lead balloon. ( No one wanted their position known for fear they would have to defend it)
The second act of violence I witnessed was outside a Committee meeting when a brother punched out a new person who was about to give a false testimony against the brother that was studying the bible with him (the new person).
I heard of another incident but did not witness it. It involved an Elder that had been a semi-professional prize fighter. He punched out the worldly husband of the woman he (the Elder) was studying with. Supposedly happened on the front steps of the husband and wifes home. Elder removed.
Juicy Stuff!!!
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What is more important to understand...
by Siddhashunyata inmoral principles, doctrine , prophecy , ourselves ?
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Siddhashunyata
Narkissos,
" Speaking" of language and Christian mystics. Here's one I thought you might enjoy:
"What you are looking for is what is looking." St. Francis
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What is more important to understand...
by Siddhashunyata inmoral principles, doctrine , prophecy , ourselves ?
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Siddhashunyata
Narkissos, you are a gracious spirit and I thank you for that.
Yes we disagree.
If I "understand" you correctly you are saying that we get understanding only when it is "carried " to our consciousness through the vehicle of language and language , being limited, can only approximate understanding. Furthermore, once the process starts, ( " self within" symbolized by "I", language ) it is not reversible.
Even when language is exhausted in an effort to describe what something "is not"(for example even using it negatively to describe what God is not ( apophatic theology ), we still cannot fully understand.
I agree. I agree whole heartedly on the limitations of language. More importantly I agree with you that language can impart 'limited understanding". (the progression of scientific knowledge shows that).
Where we disagree is on the point of "not reversible" (above). Certainly, I respect your choice to believe the process ( self/symbolization) is not reversible however, the failure of "apophatic theology" and the existence of a bastion of Western epistemology merely demonstrates what we already know, language is limited. These do not support the idea that the the process (self/symbolization) is not reversible..
For the sake of argument , if the process were reversible how would the individual express what he is experiencing? Fundamentally , he would not. He would only point the way to someone else and to them the experience itself would communicate "understanding".
Narkissos,
"...concepts are empty because language is simply an interconnected system of terms that do not capture actual things. They simply relate to other words. One who fully recognizes this fact becomes freed from the snares of language and attains correct realization, an important part of the path to liberation." NAGARJUNA
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What is more important to understand...
by Siddhashunyata inmoral principles, doctrine , prophecy , ourselves ?
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Siddhashunyata
one_ugly_time,
Yes, that's the idea. By observing yourself (thoughts) in relationship to your children the focus is taken off "reaction". Instead of identifying with your thoughts and reacting, you grow in awareness of what's going on in your head and that becomes your practice. You will still say and do things but your interest is in what's happening within you.(No Judging) . This is a practice that can be done all day long as one relates to any thing.
We are weakening a conditioned pattern by observing it, conversely we are strengthening awareness.
With awareness there is a natural intelligence that operates directly (insight). It does not rely on the "thinking process".This insight guides our reaction instead of the old mental conditioning that has enslaved us.
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Good description of the JWs
by drwtsn32 inat first glance, jehovah's witnesses seem to be the model of religious democracy.. [...] .
however, in reality the watchtower society is an absolute autocracy.
all authority is vested in the governing body, including the authority to understand and teach the bible.. [...] .
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Siddhashunyata
Hi drwtsn32,
One of the "ironies" is that the WTBTS boasts that they have helped preserve the First Amendment Rights of all Americans by winning case after case in front of the Supreme Court( Flag Salute, Preaching Door To Door etc.). When they boast they magnify themselves as defenders of Freedom yet, as you say, they grossly deny those fundamental rights to their own people. By understanding this contradiction one understands what they really $$$tand for.
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What is more important to understand...
by Siddhashunyata inmoral principles, doctrine , prophecy , ourselves ?
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Siddhashunyata
one_ugly_time wrote :
"Technically speaking, I have heard this referred to as an "observing ego", if I understand you correctly. It helps to have a lot of self-awareness and self-esteem when attempting to view life this way. It is easy, real easy in my mind, to fall into a self-hatred trap when you don't understand how to make the changes you see as desirable." Awareness is what is being cultivated. A great deal of the strain is taken off when you simply observe without judging. The thoughts are not you. There is nothing to change, awareness itself replaces the "old process" of attachment or identifying with the thoughts. For example, if lustful thoughts arise and I identify with them I may feel guilt and possibly self hatred as you suggest. However if I simply observe them as thoughts, and do not judge them as good or bad, just as thoughts rising... if I do not attach and play on them , they cease and other thoughts arise in the same way. In this way I become aware of the "process itself" of "conditioning" loops that are making me a tool of my mind. The key is to observe without "judging" and without trying to make changes. Its very simple but the action is so fast and the habit of attaching is so normal that very few find the way. Narkissos , before I disagree I want to be sure that I "understand" what you are saying. So if you will bear with me I will ask some questions. (1) Are you saying that language and self occur simultaneously ( symbolized by " I " )? (This would be the 3rd circle according to the scheme you submitted) (2) Are you saying that once that happens (above) it cannot be reversed and therefor the person is permanently "locked" into the morass of the 3 circles (Reality, Imagination, Symbolism) with language (Symbolism) as the only assuaging vehicle to approximate understanding Reality.
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What is more important to understand...
by Siddhashunyata inmoral principles, doctrine , prophecy , ourselves ?
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Siddhashunyata
zen nudist, the idea of a template for beauty is very interesting. I see some resemblance to Plato (Theory of Ideas) and some relationship to the idea that all relative phenomena (including our minds) are created through and to our minds.Taking this viewpoint, we have an accurate template for all ideal forms (including such things as color). I think "color" is the most obvious support of this viewpoint. If all in the brain is electro- chemical, how can one know the idea of green? If green were "templated" then it becomes a matter of matching the electrochemical code to the template, thus green is created through the mind and to the mind.
But I think the long and short of it is expressed in James Thomas' post. The real language is the "thing" itself. The problem is that the process of creating relative phenomena through and to the mind , that process is being interfered with. Enter ego, conceptualization etc.
Moral Principles and Dogma do little to alter the interference. With that "knowledge" we merely imitate ego-lessness for a time with very little real transformation ( ie:"without love I am not profited at all"). But by focusing on what's going on in our heads(heart) we become aware of and evolve out of the false "self" and a "true self" ( of which there is only ONE) comes forward. I think James Thomas would agree with this.
Because we are promoting an experience with life itself, the tool of language is helpful only as a "pointing " device. When Little toe expressed the idea that he has experienced things that could not be expressed in words, he stopped short of the fundamental truth that nothing can be fully expressed in words. The reason for this is that all "things" are fundamentally inherent in every particular thing. What this means is that a full definition of any one thing requires the inclusion of everything that "is" over all time. Words cannot do this, but it can be "sensed" when the "doors of perception" are cleansed. On a personal level, an encounter with life , free of conditioning, does not lead to Religion nor does it lead to "Theories" but it leads to Recommendation or "Pointing" .
Narkissos has yet to "weigh in" on the relationship of expression to understanding . Preemptively, I don't see any.