Posts by Recovery

24

All scripture is inspired of god...which scripture?

by jamesmahon in

don't know why but was thinking of 2 timothy 3:16 last night (you know 'all scripture is inspired of god etc').

i was thinking this scripture is used by the jws as well as others to say that the bible is the word of god.

however, as the bible is a construct several hundred years after the death of christ each writer was unaware of the bible as a whole.

Recovery

I would like to point out that quotations from a book does not mean that the author believed it to be inspired. There are many quotations in the Hebrew Scriptures to books that were never considered 'inspired of God' by the Jews.

23

Devil's Advocate , A QUESTION FOR RECOVERY AND OTHERS.

by DATA-DOG in

i noticed recovery's post is on lock-down.

i have never seen that happen.

i want to play devils advocate and recovery can answer honestly.

Recovery

Please offer proof for your allegations. There is nothing naive about what I said. Any reasonable person can conclude that people would have to know a certain individual is a child molestor for those rules to be inforced.

16

How Did God Communicate His 1914 Decision?

by Cold Steel in

is the organization a self-appointed group of people and is it any better or worse than the rest of christendom?

and why does it avoid the use of the term church?.

one fascinating thing is that the wbts has repeatedly published the claim that in 1914, jesus returned invisibly and inspected all the religions then on the earth.

Recovery

Is the Organization a self-appointed group of people and is it any better or worse than the rest of “Christendom?” Of course it is much better than Christendom. There have been shed blood 'in the name of God' in war or crusades or anything of that sort by JW's. There has never been anyone burned to a stake or killed because they disagreed with something JW's teach. There have never been any mettling in politics and government disobeying Jesus' clear command to stay separate from the world. Instead of clinging to human traditions and "Christianized" pagan philosophies, JW's are humble enough to discard any wrong teachings that are not in harmony with God's word the Bible. Isn't the church still promoting it's same pagan doctrines it was 1,000 years ago?

And why does it avoid the use of the term CHURCH? We have no objection to the word church, it is simply used less often so that JW's are distinguished from the various religions of Christendom. A distinction has to be made. We do not want to ever be considered on par with Christendom's churches.

The measuring of the temple is similar to the inspection to which you refer and, btw, we did not measure up! That is why Jehovah allowed the two witnesses to be killed in 1918 which included our 8 officers of the Watchtower Society sentenced to four terms of 20 years I think in the Atlanta Penitentiary a total of 80 years. And our headquarters, Bethel, was closed down. Then, in 1919, we were figuratively speaking resurrected back to life . [See Revelation 11, which the JWs very badly interpret...or misinterpret] If someone can fill me in on the two prophets here, please do. If the eight officers (one prophet) and Bethel (the second prophet) were to witness for 3.5 years, be killed and resurrected 3.5 days later, the math does not seem to work. Both prophets were symbolically killed in 1918 and then (figuratively speaking) were resurrected in 1919. Pulling out my super duper calculator, that comes to...lemme see...uh...one year. How does that compute?? And is the Organization really saying that the measuring of the temple is a prophecy of God measuring them? Do I still hear the sound of stretching? Anyway...onward!

The two prophets (two witnesses) do not represent the eight officers/Bethel. Page 164 of the Revelation book talks about this when it says: "The John class had to preach this message for a definitely stated time: 1,260 days, or 42 months, the same length of time that the holy city was to be trampled underfoot.." The two witnesses = the John class = the anointed remnant. It later goes on to say: "The fact that they were symbolized by two witnesses confirms to us that their message was accurate and well founded.." So it is a misrepresentation of what JW's to teach to say that the two witnesses were Bethel and the eight men who were resurrected.

We know that the anointed remnant (as a whole) stopped preaching collectively in June of 1918. So we count back 1,260 days (3 1/2 years) and this brings us to December 1914. So the prophecy finds its fulfillment from December 1914 to June 1918. Now, notice Revelation 11:7-11 "And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them. 8 And their corpses will be on the broad way of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called Sod′om and Egypt, where their Lord was also impaled. 9 And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not let their corpses be laid in a tomb. 10 And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and enjoy themselves, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth. 11 And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. 12 And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: “Come on up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them."

This cannot be a literal 3 1/2 day period. Why? Because the Bible says these corpses were laid on the broad way of Sodom and Egypt, where Jesus was impaled. Then the nations and the peoples and the tribes will look at the dead corpses for 3 1/2 days. They rejoice and celebrate for 3 1/2 days. Notice the scripture says 'they stood upon their feet' when the spirit of life from God entered into them. Their literal corpses have been revived and they have been resurrected and are now going to heaven. But 1 Corinthians 15 tells us 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God'. This large combination of things leads us to conclude that these are not 3.5 literal days, or 84 hours. Further proof of this in found back in verse 7 "And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them.." Most people agree that the wild beast is the Anglo-American world power. Notice it says the wild beast 'ascends out of the abyss', meaning it appears during this time period. It is in the present tense. This had to have occurred sometime after the Wild Beast emerged (1914). Now if we interpret this literally, then the entire world looked at two dead bodies for 3 1/2 days and then saw them go up to heaven (two literal fleshly bodies). So then what does the 3 1/2 days represent? The Revelation book on page 168 says: Notice that in examining the experiences of God’s people at this time, it appears that while the 42 months represent a literal three and a half years, the three and a half days do not represent a literal period of 84 hours. Likely, the specific period of three and a half days is mentioned twice (in verses 9 and 11) to highlight that it would be only a short period compared with the actual three and a half years of activity that precede it."

16

Full time ministry Joy--or Lack Thereof

by WTWizard in

i can remember all the while i was in the cancer that they would trump up the value of pious-sneering.

one of those was the "joy" of serving jehovah full time.

they would always have these fantastic stories about how they had obstacles that they foolhardily disregarded, or that they got all these people into the cancer.. this is full of rubbish.

Recovery

Yes, of course....the usual fear tactics to scare a JW. Did you get that 'insight' on our fear of disobeying Jehovah and the FDS from Ray Franz or was it another one?

23

Devil's Advocate , A QUESTION FOR RECOVERY AND OTHERS.

by DATA-DOG in

i noticed recovery's post is on lock-down.

i have never seen that happen.

i want to play devils advocate and recovery can answer honestly.

Recovery

If there is an unbaptized publisher in the congregation who is an unwholesome influence, or could be, on other youth, the Elders standard protocol is to warn parents. The reason being that the parents need to protect their children from danger. I am a parent, and I feel that a child who listens to questionable music or watches questionable movies, or may have some behavioral issues is much less of a threat to my child than a child molester.

There is standard protocol also enforced for child molestors. If the elders will follow standard protocol in warning you about unwholesome influences do you think they will not warn the parents of the congregation of a convicted sex offender? You see, the protocol for elders regarding molestors is much much more serious and encompassing than a simple warning to not associate with a certain individual. They are not allowed to work alone with children in service. They are not allowed to touch or fondle or cultivate friendships with children. They are not allowed to invite children over their house. They are not allowed to have any congregational privileges or to be alone with children at any time. If all of this is to be enforced, don't you think more than 7 (likely busy and full-time working) men would have to know about the abuser's status?

23

Devil's Advocate , A QUESTION FOR RECOVERY AND OTHERS.

by DATA-DOG in

i noticed recovery's post is on lock-down.

i have never seen that happen.

i want to play devils advocate and recovery can answer honestly.

Recovery

Recovery, let's say that Candice Conti is lying about the whole thing. That doesn't explain why the Elders in general ( there are some exceptions) will not inform parent's when a convicted or accused child molester is in the Christian Congregation.

A letter dated March 14, 1997 gives us a clear answer: "What should elders do when a former child molester moves to another congregation? As outlined in the February 1991 Our Kingdom Ministry "Question Box" and the August 1, 1995, letter to all Bodies of Elders, our policy is always to send a letter of introduction when a publisher moves to another congregation. It is imperative that this be done when one who is known to have been a child molester moves. The secretary should write on behalf of the elders to the new congregation's body of elders and outline this publisher's background and what the elders in the old congregation have been doing to assist him. Any needed cautions should be provided to the new congregation's body of elders. The elders should send a copy of this letter to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in one of the "Special Blue" envelopes."

As we see, a letter is sent out each time a former molester moves for the rest of his life. They keep an eye out. As shown previously in a 1997 letter to the BOE, rules and restrictions to be enforced upon former molesters for the protection of children. The elders upon being informed can make sure these rules are carried out. They make sure, for example, that he does not work in field service with a child, have children spend the night, hold children, cultivate friendship with children, receive privileges, caution others if there is a cause for concern, etc. Now ask yourself: how could any of these cautionary actions be made if people are not informed of a child molestor in the congregation? This is the beauty of Jehovah's Witnesses congregation sizes being restricted to about 120 publishers. It is a tight-knit, relatively small group of publishers. Everybody knows everybody. People are definitely made aware of the child abuser's status.

16

Full time ministry Joy--or Lack Thereof

by WTWizard in

i can remember all the while i was in the cancer that they would trump up the value of pious-sneering.

one of those was the "joy" of serving jehovah full time.

they would always have these fantastic stories about how they had obstacles that they foolhardily disregarded, or that they got all these people into the cancer.. this is full of rubbish.

Recovery

A similar inquiry made to the prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel:

Doesn't the Bible say Jehovah will pour out a floodgate of blessings upon those who do his will? Well, I'm sorry, I just don't see how anyone can think being a full-time prophet of Jehovah is a blessing in any sense of the word. How many times were you beat and spit upon Jeremiah? I've lost count. Ezekiel, you had to lie on your side for 390 days. How in the world can anybody call that a blessing? Surely, there is no way you benefitted from being put in cisterns (Jeremiah), or having to lie on your side (390 days). 99% of people are apathetic to your message anyway. It doesn't matter how much preaching you do. There were prophets before you (Micah, for example) and they didn't listen to them. You are wasting time preaching to them. You have been declaring the same message for over 23 years now and nothing has happened. Nobody has listened. If you add the time of the previous and contemporary prophets who declared a similar message, you have over 300 years of combined preaching and the people as a whole will still be killed, according to your so-called prophets. How long have you been saying the day of Jehovah is near for now?

I also can't say why a loving God who brings blessings upon you would tell you not to marry, Jeremiah. Surely, you need a support system. "Normal" men get married and have children. What type of blessing is it to have to be alone and old, by yourself after so many years of full time prophesying for your precious Jehovah? After all the beatings and the spitting and the mocking and the humilliation and the apathy you've been facing after all these years, the least he could "bless" you with is a wife. Even your secretary Baruch is tired of the same monotonous routine of going in the court gates and near the same walls of Jerusalem and preaching this same message of destruction.

And Ezekiel, Jehovah told you not to show any emotion/remorse when your wife died. He isn't going to give you another one in place of her? After all your years of full time prophesying, that's certainly one of the least things he could do for you. And on top of all your faithfulness, you end up going into exile with the rest of the idol worshippers and even the women who boiled their children alive. How have you benefitted from full time prophesying at all? What do you have to show for it? How can anybody be happy or feel blessed in these circumstances?

Jeremiah and Ezekiel I think you might want to rethink full time prophesying. Or maybe you be like Urijah and flee to Egypt and stop prophesying for Jehovah. But wait, Jehovah would probably allow you to be killed for your disobedience. Wow, you're screwed no matter what you do. You're trapped in this horrible, unhappy, monotonous, unfulfilling, unjoyful full time prophesying work. I feel so sorry for you.

49

Finally! -- Why the WTS Discourages Higher Education

by Recovery in

i'm sure many of you have been wondering why the wts has stuck to it's adamant viewpoint of higher education.

let's settle it once and for all.

this will prove conclusively why it's in young people's best interests to avoid higher education.. candace conti has inspired hundreds, perhaps thousands of young girls across america to successfully take on the wts.

Recovery

Proverbs 14:17 " He that is quick to anger will commit foolishness, but the man of thinking abilities is hated."

I think there is a reason behind so much anger and weeping and gnashing and name calling. It is because my sarcasm so eloquently exposes the absurdness and ridiculous of certain people's reasoning abilities. It is because they know deep down that something isn't right, but because they are so blinded by their hate for JW's, they will not allow themselves to believe otherwise.

Notice no one has addressed any of my sarcastic points and offered a credible defense for Ms. Conti. Why? Because not even Ms. Conti could offer a reasonable and credible defense of her allegations.

Why are you so quick to scrutinize every WT article and every experience in the WT publications, but you can't take a realistic view of this case? Why do you want JW's to "think for themselves" when it comes to the WT, but you won't do it for one child abuse case? You are too busy celebrating and rejoicing out of your hatred for JW's instead of verifying the facts. Maybe if some of you had done that, you would still be Jehovah's Witnesses.

49

Finally! -- Why the WTS Discourages Higher Education

by Recovery in

i'm sure many of you have been wondering why the wts has stuck to it's adamant viewpoint of higher education.

let's settle it once and for all.

this will prove conclusively why it's in young people's best interests to avoid higher education.. candace conti has inspired hundreds, perhaps thousands of young girls across america to successfully take on the wts.

Recovery

I am not defending child molestors. I am not defending anyone. I am simply trying to show people why the WTS is justified in discouraging higher education. Who wouldn't want to be a millionaire?

16

How Did God Communicate His 1914 Decision?

by Cold Steel in

is the organization a self-appointed group of people and is it any better or worse than the rest of christendom?

and why does it avoid the use of the term church?.

one fascinating thing is that the wbts has repeatedly published the claim that in 1914, jesus returned invisibly and inspected all the religions then on the earth.

Recovery

A lot of that is a misrepresentation/inaccurate portrayal of what JW's teach. I don't understand what you are asking since your questions are based on something JW's do not teach.