Posts by Recovery

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

Recovery

To sum up closing arguments:

Jehovah says "YOU must not look for omens, and YOU must not practice magic." (Lev 19:26)

Jwfacts says: All the people in the Bible DID practice magic and there was no distinction between the practice of magic and miracles performed of God, directly contradicting God's word.

Etymological origins of magic: Middle English magique, from Middle French, from Latin magice, from Greek magike, feminine of magikosMagian, magical, from magos magus, sorcerer , of Iranian origin; akin to Old Persian maguš sorcerer

Etymological origins of miracle: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin miraculum, from Latin, a wonder, marvel, from mirarito wonder at

20

The Conscious Universe: Parts and Wholes in Physical Reality, Google books

by frankiespeakin in

.

google books:.

http://books.google.com/books?id=o12s37atopqc&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false.

Recovery

Wow I have never seen an ebook so expensive. Especially considering it was published 12 years ago. Must be pretty interesting, eh?

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

Recovery

I was thinking about responding to certain points but then I again I doubt anyone is still paying attention 8 days later.

278

Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery in

jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

Recovery

So what exactly is the question? The disharmony between the timeline evolutionary developmental theory of sea creatures and the order described in Genesis?

Yes it was disrespectful. For that I apologize. I'm going to refrain from the use of sarcasm in my responses from now as it seems to set a lot of people off.

278

Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery in

jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

Recovery

Are JWs supposed to care what Debuhn says? Why dont you quote 90% of mainstream scholars who believe in some version of the pagan Trinity doctrine. Can jwfacts and endofmysteries please point out which posts addressed my four questions, thanks.

Jgnats My response wasnt serious because King Solomons assertion wasnt completely accurate.

278

Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery in

jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

Recovery

Ok jwfacts and several others claim they have addressed my four questions. I will go back to the very beginning of this thread and wade thru all the muck to see if I can find these answers. But I won't hold my breath.

278

Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery in

jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

Recovery

bttt

15

Questions for Recover and ANY JW here, if can be explained I'll return to JW.

by EndofMysteries in

while i am waiting for him to answer my question.

i thought i would ask of him and any other jw's.

we are supposed to have the truth, the bible is all scripture is inspired and benefitical for teaching, reproving, and setting things straight.

Recovery

Can you please make a simple list of questions that you would like answered. Your explanation is fine but I just need a direct question.

278

Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery in

jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

Recovery

The only thing I have to say for Band on the Run is.....tell someone who cares. The insults are old. The ad hominem attacks are boring. The stereotypical view of anyone who doesn't condemn the WT as a ravenous cult is boring. Of course my arguments and my debating skills are weak. Of course I'm not very smart, I'm brainwashed, I'm a hypocrite, and I'm sure a list of more derogatory terms could be made if I collected all the names I'm called here on a daily basis.

Now can anyone answer the four questions. EndOfMysteries at least took a shot at it. I will not be replying to anymore comments in this thread that don't address the four questions. People are constantly trying to muddy the issue and confuse onlookers. And it's a poor attempt at that.

278

Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery in

jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

Recovery

I asked: How can those who are immortal be guided to the fountains of waters of life?

EndOfMysteries answered:You will notice in both the old testament and new testament one thing identical to the fountains/waters of life. That they come from under the temple. In the Old testament, this they come from under the temple, one flows to the dead sea and brings life to the sea. Also trees grow on both sides and their leafs give healing to the nations. Jesus says that YOU, your BODY is the temple, and inside you a spring will bubble and give life. Then in Revelation, it appears a spiritual Jerusalem with waters flowing from it.

Okay, I'm not really sure how this answers the question. Can you possibly rephrase with a one-sentence answer that makes it clear exactly what you are trying to say?

I asked: 'How will they 'no longer hunger or thirst or experience the heat from the sun' anymore when they have HEAVENLY, SPIRITUAL, IMMORTAL BODIES'

Reply: As for how will they no longer hunger, experience the heat from the sun, your question alone answered that, if they are spiritual they do not need to eat and the heat from the sun would not harm them. If they are immortal, there is no death.

The scripture says 'God will wipe out every tear from their eyes'. This is implying that in the present (the vision that John is presently seeing) things such as tears still exist. Pain, mourning, scorching heat from the sun, still exist. The scripture says that these things will be no more. If we interpret the great crowd as inhabiting heaven, they have already received their immortal bodies, and these things do not exist (presently). Therefore, it cannot be said that such things will be down away with, when the interpretation requires that they already have been eliminated. I hope this helps. This is why the interpretation of the great crowd being in heaven poses so many issues that directly contradict the following verses that follow the vision.

I didn't disagree with anything you said about 1 Corinthians so there's nothing I can really respond to about that.

What is interesting, is the idea that flesh will live forever and never die, atleast once, seems to be spoken in Is 28:14-15, speaking about those who made a covenant with death, that they would never die, how it's a false teaching.

Isaiah 28:14-15 "Therefore hear the word of Jehovah, YOU braggarts, YOU rulers of this people who are in Jerusalem: 15 Because YOU men have said: “We have concluded a covenant with Death; and with She′ol we have effected a vision; the overflowing flash flood, in case it should pass through, will not come to us, for we have made a lie our refuge and in falsehood we have concealed ourselves.."

The people in Jerusalem did not believe that they would live forever and not die. They simply believed that Assyria would not come through Jerusalem and that they would be protected by Egypt. Again, I'm not really getting the flux of your argument.