There was an older sister in our congregation as kids who would reprimand us if we said "Damn!" Always thought this was over the top and wanted to educate her about all of the far worse "swear words" we could be using.
mrsObfuscate
JoinedPosts by mrsObfuscate
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19
You must not say Gee, Gee wiz, or Golly
by Truth and Justice inbefore i start my subject post, i like to extend a warm welcome to all the new members that have joined the site.
i just can't keep up with all the new names.
nice to see all of you here.. i haven't posted anything in a while because of work, scheduling and everything else, but i do have some interesting thoughts that i would like to share with all of you in the coming months.
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Books I read when I deprogrammed
by OrphanCrow inblondie suggested someone start a thread with a list of books that are valuable to read when exiting the jws.. i will start.. i left the jws way back in the early 70s and didn't actually deprogram until into the 80s.. one of the first books i read was "the orwellian world of jehovah's witnesses" by gary and heather botting.
canadian exjws from calagary.
an excellent book and one that still resonates with young people today.
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mrsObfuscate
Stephen Hassan's "Combatting cult mind control" -
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How and Why?
by The Rebel ina recent thread i read about bethel " sending an old man packing" has bought to my attention it's one of many threads that show the most " loving" organisation in the world is cold and without love.. how can an organisation that is so unloving, have so many kind hearted people as members?.
this is the sincere question that i have not found an answer to.. the rebel..
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mrsObfuscate
Rebel
I recently read a fantastic essay written by a woman who became involved in a "new age" cult. This is the link to the full essay - http://www.icsahome.com/articles/perfect-master-or-perfect-psychopath
She ponders a similar question to yours and I am sure that the rest of the essay will give further insights into why she said this-
I think about those whom I have left behind. Other ex –members say that some of the nicest people they have ever met are those they left behind in the cult. I wholeheartedly agree. Like attracts like. I was idealistic, altruistic, and ready to help. Those I left behind are that same way and that is why I miss them and their friendships. The sense of helplessness is overwhelming sometimes, especially when I think that many of those people are involved in the group because I brought them to it.
It made me wonder whether (as a general rule), the types of people attracted into the organization are already kind and lovely people who wish to use their positive qualities in some way to benefit others. Once they are in, they get caught up in the cult mindset and simply cannot or will not see the realities of the organization they belong to. They cling to the ideals that their beliefs hold out to them and this further adds to the difficulty of their seeing reality.
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How do you feel about the expression "The Truth"?
by stuckinarut2 init's amazing how the expression "the truth" has become such an ingrained term used by witnesses.. "we have 'the truth'".
"is he 'in the truth'?".
most here have found out so many facts about the organisation, and felt the effects of being "gut-punched" as we realised these facts.. so how do you feel about the expression "the truth" now?.
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mrsObfuscate
I have to stop myself from referring to JW's as being "in the truth." It's so ingrained, but now that we have the whole picture of the organization it feels so very wrong.
How can something that is "The Truth" be constantly changeable?
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New here
by MarkofCane inhello and thanks to everyone for participating on this forum it has really been of much value, for those of you that post here know that your words are not lost you never know who is reading your expressions, lives are being changed and nonsense challenged.
i’m not much of a writer so excuse my untrained writing style and grammar but i want to share my story to help anyone who is visiting here to see that we are real people, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters who have come here for answers, there is no agenda, just searching for truth.
i hope my story will help others as so many here have helped me..
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mrsObfuscate
MarkOfCane
Thank-you for putting your story out there and for sharing a part of your emotional journey.
I loved your comment/quote -
There is nothing more horrible than the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts.
I am thankful that I had a great deal of circumstances that led me to finally see TTATT, although it was still heartbreaking. From the story you have given so far, it would seem that you weren't given as soft a lead-up, as I was perhaps, to be exposed to the reality of the organisation. I can only imagine that the rollercoaster of emotions that resulted would have been overwhelming.
Welcome, and I hope that the experiences and information from others on this forum will continue to help you to get through this life-changing period.
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Time to Spill my Guts
by Hadriel inbeen lurking around here for several weeks.
posted once or twice but not too much.
i'm a covert fade at the moment.
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mrsObfuscate
Hadriel, thank you for spilling your guts! It is always interesting to learn of others journey's.
Our family made a move out of our home town just under a year ago. I can highly recommend it. My children are smaller than yours, and it was difficult for them at first, but they have new friends now and I have to say that there is a great sense of relief in having friends outside of the organization. There are many kind and genuine people in this world and it is a wonderful feeling to not have to be tiptoeing around "treading on eggshells" as it were trying to constantly make a good impression to JW's. "Worldly people" take you for who you are and that in itself is an enormous relief.
Having some distance between us and former friends and our family made our exit that much easier.
Are your kids still at school? I agree that being involved in school, sports, music or whatever tickles your kids fancy are great ways to widen the scope and help them to make new friends.
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Don't fall through the "cracks"
by mrsObfuscate inbeing able to understand and identify the "cracks" (i.e.
unintended consequences) in the many systems we are surrounded by had a profound influence on my ultimate decision to step away from the org.
i mentioned in my first post there were many nuanced details that added up to help me to finally take the steps i needed to exit, and this was a fairly big one.
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mrsObfuscate
Being able to understand and identify the "cracks" (i.e. unintended consequences) in the many systems we are surrounded by had a profound influence on my ultimate decision to step away from the ORG. I mentioned in my first post there were many nuanced details that added up to help me to finally take the steps I needed to exit, and this was a fairly big one.
Most of the information I exposed myself to, like many within the organization, was limited to WT literature, or from other witnesses. I was not one to just be interested enough in what was going on in the world around me to stop and research and try to make sense of it. Why would I need to? After all what more could we expect from Satan’s wicked system? Jehovah was going to fix it all in the end anyway! This type of thinking left me wide open to the possibility of “falling through the cracks.” Let me explain…
I had always taken the stance that knowing or talking about any problems that might exist within the organization would not be upbuilding or positive, and should thus be avoided at all costs. I would downplay when other Witnesses talked about their personal problems (mentally “blaming the victim”) and would definitely not believe someone if they told me of some problems that existed within the ORG. I understand now that this blinded me to the realities that were right under my nose and exposed me to the great possibility that I could be detrimentally impacted by the ORG. How did I finally come to realize this?
My ever-patient husband tried so many different ways to get me to start thinking about things and to break out of my zombie-like state of adherence to the JW mindset. He would send me articles that he had read about anything and everything. Political systems, the financial system, the health system, education system, climate change, cognitive biases, conspiracy theories…you name it, he’d read it! I felt least threatened by information he sent me that had nothing to do with religion or JW’s in particular. I was not always interested in the topics that he sent me but I could see that my understanding it was important to him, so I read it.
We had lengthy discussions about all of these topics and what stood out was that ALL of the systems have “cracks” in them. “Holes” that real people could fall down and have their lives, at the least negatively impacted, or at worst, completely ruined. I always had the idea that there were “bad apples” that existed within these systems, but believed that all in all the institutions themselves were good. Our discussions helped me to understand that these systems had mechanisms set up to protect the institution often at the cost of human lives, livelihoods, health, and happiness. That real people “fell through the cracks.”
A couple of the systems we discussed, were very important to me (health and education) and it was at this point that I made a terrifying mental connection – What if the system of worship that I based my entire life around wasn’t what I thought it was? What if the “cracks” existed in that institution too? It was a very scary thought.
Despite having this epiphany of sorts, I still managed to put this to the back of my mind. I am sure I thought that if I made myself blissfully happy within the organization by being as faithful and active as possible, I wouldn’t have to look at this new gaping hole that may exist or imagine how many others this may have impacted. The ARC then gave me no place to hide. The “cracks” were there, the “holes” enormous and worst of all it was obvious that the ORG was trying to deny that they existed and were unwilling to address them. They still are. I did not want to leave my children or myself in a vulnerable position to “fall through the cracks” within an organization unwilling to identify problems, openly discuss and endeavor to address them. -
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The story of my exit
by mrsObfuscate ini have been lurking here for about 6 months, and being the last day of the year, and ready to start the new one afresh, i want to share the story of our exit from the org.
i have found the personal experiences of others of immeasurable value, (and its been a while since a good exit story has been posted) that i hope this can be of benefit to at least someone.. .
my mother became a jehovahs witness when i was about 9 or 10. i remember initially hating all of the new sanctions put on our lives (no birthdays and christmas anymore) but for some reason i soon after joined her in attending the meetings and eventually got baptized at the age of 14. my staunch catholic father converted a couple of years later.
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mrsObfuscate
freddo
I am sure that the ARC had a special effect on me because I have witnessed in others the effects of childhood physical and emotional abuse. I have seen those effects linger on with a person even into their adult years. The effects are real and the hurt never really goes away. The hurt goes onto impact many of the people surrounding the abused person. I can only imagine that the effects of sexual abuse would be multiplied tenfold. The accounts of the victims in the ARC saddened me greatly. I was so disappointed for them that they did not get the help, love and support that they so desperately needed at the time and that many in their congregations made life even more difficult for them.
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The story of my exit
by mrsObfuscate ini have been lurking here for about 6 months, and being the last day of the year, and ready to start the new one afresh, i want to share the story of our exit from the org.
i have found the personal experiences of others of immeasurable value, (and its been a while since a good exit story has been posted) that i hope this can be of benefit to at least someone.. .
my mother became a jehovahs witness when i was about 9 or 10. i remember initially hating all of the new sanctions put on our lives (no birthdays and christmas anymore) but for some reason i soon after joined her in attending the meetings and eventually got baptized at the age of 14. my staunch catholic father converted a couple of years later.
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mrsObfuscate
Crazyguy
Link to full transcript -
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx
stuckinarut2, sparky1 andCloser to Fine
Thank-you!
obfuscate
Love you!
Lost and adrift
I appreciate you sharing your experience. I have not been disfellowshipped and am trying to avoid it if at all possible. Shunning is such a cruel and pointless exercise, especially since you have been out of the organisation for so many years. I hope that your new fiance brings you a lot of happiness.
freemindfade and LevelThePlayingField
I am sure that I am not the only one effected by the ARC, but I am surprised at how some witnesses have defended the organisational response and applauded the testimony of G.J.
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The story of my exit
by mrsObfuscate ini have been lurking here for about 6 months, and being the last day of the year, and ready to start the new one afresh, i want to share the story of our exit from the org.
i have found the personal experiences of others of immeasurable value, (and its been a while since a good exit story has been posted) that i hope this can be of benefit to at least someone.. .
my mother became a jehovahs witness when i was about 9 or 10. i remember initially hating all of the new sanctions put on our lives (no birthdays and christmas anymore) but for some reason i soon after joined her in attending the meetings and eventually got baptized at the age of 14. my staunch catholic father converted a couple of years later.
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mrsObfuscate
I have been lurking here for about 6 months, and being the last day of the year, and ready to start the new one afresh, I want to share the story of our exit from the Org. I have found the personal experiences of others of immeasurable value, (and it’s been a while since a good exit story has been posted) that I hope this can be of benefit to at least someone.
My mother became a Jehovah’s Witness when I was about 9 or 10. I remember initially hating all of the new sanctions put on our lives (no birthdays and Christmas anymore) but for some reason I soon after joined her in attending the meetings and eventually got baptized at the age of 14. My staunch catholic father converted a couple of years later. I left school at 15 to pioneer and was a regular pioneer from 16-18. I was married at the age of 18 (because it’s way better to do that than to sin and have sex before marriage) to a fellow pioneer. Thankfully we didn’t have any children until much later.
It was around the time of the birth of our first child that my husband began to change and question his beliefs. He did not set out to try to undermine his faith, in fact I’m sure that he would have been more than happy to continue as a Witness if his research found that it really was the “truth.” Truth was of the utmost importance to him. His feelings mirrored those of early C.T. Russell who stated:
“We should learn to love and value truth for it’s own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomever presented. A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God.”
The presentation of “truths” at the meetings and in the publications began to frustrate him. He could see serious flaws in the way arguments were presented by the organization and this led him to do further research into critical thinking, logical fallacies and rhetoric. He learned to analyze every argument that he was presented with and became adept at pointing out their flaws. He was becoming increasingly frustrated at every meeting and the tension it created was enormous. He soon stopped going to the meetings.
Needless to say as a “still fully in” at the time JW this was devastating for me. I was an emotional wreck. I continued to take my children to the meetings despite his having stopped. This began the most heart-wrenching and stressful period of our married life. I was not open to any kind of different thinking. My husband would raise issues with me about the bible, WT doctrine and JW policies. I would go away and do WT publication research thinking that it would be easy to defeat his arguments, but I could not. I put it down to a lack of faith on his part and continued on. I remember going to assemblies and becoming “righteously indignant” guns blazing when I came home and ready to tear his arguments apart, but again this had little if any effect. Our marriage was “fine” when no religious or doctrinal issues were raised, but as soon as they were we plummeted back into a horrible emotional cycle. I was ever protective of my precious beliefs and put mental walls up whenever there was a possibility that they would be undermined.
The purpose of his raising these issues with me was so that I could understand him, not so that I would stop being a witness. He always stated that he all he wished to do was to figure out if our lives were actually going in the same direction and if not, we needed to have an honest conversation about whether we should stay together. I could not comprehend how he could possibly question the organization or heaven forbid the bible itself and not intend to stop me from being a witness (Satan is cunning after all). I was absolutely sure that if I perfectly applied 1 Peter 3:1 that eventually he would come back to the “truth.” So the walls stayed up and the cycle continued.
He put up with this for 5 years, and I am so thankful that he never gave up on me. We truly love each other and I am so grateful that this did not end up destroying our marriage (it came very close to doing so on more than one occasion).
The struggle to continue as a faithful witness actually led to the beginning of my downfall. As I soldiered on going to the meetings and out witnessing, I felt unsupported and isolated as part of the congregation. I felt as if the awkwardness of having a husband who was once a ministerial servant and now no longer in “the truth” was too much for some people to bear. Rather than rally around me to help me to continue, I was avoided, even by friends I’d had for 20 odd years. I would go to the meetings and no one would even bother to come up and talk to me. We were never invited to social gatherings as a family (my husband was never disfellowshipped). I felt as if I was now a questionable associate because the emotional trauma I was dealing with meant that I wasn’t at all of the meetings. I had done nothing scripturally wrong, yet I felt like an outsider. The publications also had very little to offer in the way of support. I kept thinking that I wasn't applying the scriptures properly and if I just try a little bit harder everything will be better. If I'm more regular, if I answer more, if I make more sacrifices, if I throw myself headfirst into the ministry it will fix everything, but I was the loneliest I had ever been in my life, I was absolutely miserable.
I thought that a change of congregation would help me to revive my spirituality and so we moved a fair distance away from our hometown. The new congregation was nice, but it finally dawned on me that I had to be content with having separate friends from my husband and that we would never really have family friends. That some way our family would never be united.
I was finding myself going to the meetings wondering why I was even there. I would sit there mentally disagreeing with the material provided. It became more of a chance at a social experience, but even then I had to prove myself to be a “fine Christian” before I would even be considered to be worthy of someone’s friendship. I was physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted and in all honesty, I really could not have been bothered to try to prove myself.
Then the ARC happened.
I don’t know exactly what it was that prompted me to actually look into it. I was absolutely convinced that there was not even a possibility that there was anything wrong with the way the organization dealt with perpetrators of sexual abuse. After all, they were so vocal about abuses within the Catholic Church; it would be hypocritical if they weren’t flawless themselves!
I read the entire transcript of the ARC. Although not a victim of abuses myself, the similarities between the way that the victims had been treated by the congregation and my personal experience was uncanny. I was horrified at the responses given by the elders testifying and could not believe the dishonest representation given by them of the way things work within the organization. Oh, and of course Geoffrey Jackson’s obfuscation of most questions within his testimony was the final straw. My heart was broken. The organization, which I had given 20 years of my life to, was a sham. The dishonesty was overwhelming. The lack of concern for individuals within the org was inexcusable, especially considering that (according to WT teachings) this meant the future life of the persons involved!
I went to a meeting throughout the ARC and could not believe that no announcements about it were made from the platform. That no one else seemed to even know that it was going on! I attended the regional convention with the hopes that something would be announced there, but nothing. The closest anyone came to saying anything about it was during the final talk on Sunday when the speaker visiting from Bethel said, “There are many negative reports about Jehovah’s Witnesses in the media. Don’t believe everything you read in the newspaper!” I could not comprehend that a massive problem such as this within the organization which negatively effected thousands, would not be addressed head on.
I have not attended a meeting or been witnessing since. My conscience would not allow me to be complicit with the actions of the Org by supporting it any way.
The ARC talked about doctrinal matters I had never even heard of such as: the two witness rule; the possibility of a woman who is raped being disfellowshipped for fornication; losing faith in the GB as the FDS = disfellowshipping for apostasy; questioning anything the GB presents as equal to apostasy; lying being acceptable if it meant protecting the Org; preemptive shunning; the list goes on.
At this point I had still never read any information on an “apostate” website, but I finally worked up the courage to read information on JW facts. The way arguments are presented on Paul’s site, unemotionally and straight from WT publications, is an awesome way for anyone new to questioning the org to get information. The Pandora’s box was opened and after much research on numerous websites, you tube videos and through this forum, I found that I knew very little about the religion I had been a part of for the last 20 years of my life.
There are many more nuanced details to my story, all of which added fuel to the fire to help me leave. If I had mentioned them here, this post would have been a novel! I am sure that I will bring them out in posts to come.
Our life now is very good. Our marriage is stronger than it has ever been. We are making new friends. I finished high school and have enrolled in University next year. My children are happy. I am happy. I no longer have to half-heartedly try to convince them of believing in something I am not convinced of myself. I have learned so much about life and I’m looking forward to embracing our life on this planet with open arms.