PSac ,thanks I was a bit worried that I might have gone a step too far in speaking on your behalf , but we do seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet . First time I typed that I missed the middle g from singing and got a very different meaning !!! Designs , have you read "who moved the stone " by Frank Morris , I think . He was an investigative journalist who set out to disprove the ressurection and ended up a believer . I get the impresssion that you don't want to believe , however ,so maybe you don't want to investigate Christianity intelligently (yes that can be done ) . C S Lewis wrote many interlectually challenging books on the subject . The Bible says that God is revealed to us in creation if we have eyes to see . The simplest way to belief , if you will ask with a truly open mind is to ask God to reveal Himself to you . I think maybe that you are worried that you might find something that you are not prepared for , the love of God , which is more than we can understand with our finite minds . Try it , you might just be surprised .
Posts by jhine
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88what takes away salvation
by jhine ini am certain that the watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies .
so logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "the truth " does anyone else agree with that statement ?
if so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of god alone ?
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88
what takes away salvation
by jhine ini am certain that the watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies .
so logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "the truth " does anyone else agree with that statement ?
if so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of god alone ?
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jhine
P.S , sorry PSac if I have misrepresentated your veiws in any way , I did get a bit carried away in the last post
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88
what takes away salvation
by jhine ini am certain that the watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies .
so logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "the truth " does anyone else agree with that statement ?
if so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of god alone ?
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jhine
designs , PSac is allowing that ,yes of course people will have different thoughts on any important subject -look at politics ,people disagree as to how to fix the economy etc ,does that mean that we don't need to fix the economy ? If you read my post above I entirely agree with PSac that we should lovingly engage with those who have different ideas and admit that maybe we don't have all the right answers . The point being made about the Watchtower ,it was my point in the first place, is that they outright lie to their members to give their ideas weight . How can you engage honestly with people who don't know what honesty means . If anyone wants to follow Watchtower teachings they should at least be aware that" proofs" given in their publications ie "quotes " from the Early church fathers are totally twisted to say something that was never intended .
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42
I am new here and need help...or just a listening ear
by Fallingaway inmy husband and i have two small children, one of which recently became an unbaptised publisher and joined the school.
my husband is an elder and firmly committed to our family and loves me deeply as i love him.
i would like to find a way for all of us to fade away as we have family in the organization that we do not want to lose.
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jhine
Fernando , you welcomed me to a thread that I started about what takes away salvation . I did not realise that you were ex-JW . I would love to know why you left , it might help me to witness to my witness friends . I have never been a witness but am a trinitarian Christian who feels a calling to engage with JW's to try to help them think for themselves more , it is so sad that these false prophets keep so many locked in the dungeons of the Watchtower .
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88
what takes away salvation
by jhine ini am certain that the watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies .
so logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "the truth " does anyone else agree with that statement ?
if so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of god alone ?
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jhine
coffee , are you a JW who is coming out ? I would be sooo interested in your reasons . I really feel a calling to witness to my local witnesses !! Most Christains I know just say stuff like " I'm happy as I am thanks " and never engage witnesses in discusion and I feel that this is sad . Please elaborate on your meeting with the Elders , sounds fascinating
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88
what takes away salvation
by jhine ini am certain that the watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies .
so logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "the truth " does anyone else agree with that statement ?
if so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of god alone ?
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jhine
Hi, Ding and Pterist and thank you Psac for your continued imput . I know that many people think that arguments over interpretations of the Bible are futile and harmful and I would agree . The point that I am making is that while Presbyterians , Baptists , Catholics etc hold different veiws over Bible interpretation , and I'm sure that we can humbly learn from each other on occasion , the Watchtower feels the need to produce literature like "SHOULD YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY " which is packed to the rafters with mis-quotes and falsehoods to back up it's theology . As far as I'm aware nobody has accused Luther of downright dishonesty to try to get people to share his veiws . Most people who try to interpret the Bible do so sincerely and although others may think that their logic is flawed must acknowledge that their aims are righteous , can this be said of the W.T.?
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42
I am new here and need help...or just a listening ear
by Fallingaway inmy husband and i have two small children, one of which recently became an unbaptised publisher and joined the school.
my husband is an elder and firmly committed to our family and loves me deeply as i love him.
i would like to find a way for all of us to fade away as we have family in the organization that we do not want to lose.
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jhine
I have never been a witness but due to family being in the org. I developed an interest and feel a calling as a Christian to try to witness to witnesses who live locally . I have studied a lot of witness theology and their literature . I have not had time to read thoroughly all the repy's posted so I appologise if I repeat what someone else has said . The main thing that conviced me of the wrong teaching of the W .T was their booklet "SHOULD YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY " I looked up for myself the works of the Early Church Fathers quoted and found that the quotes given had been carefully doctored to make them say the opposite to what the writers were actually saying . The Early Church Fathers did believe in the Trinity and the word is used in their writings long before the W.T say it was coined . I believe that after some Witnesses ( including Randy Watters , who started Free MInds ) found out the con then they did publish another book backpedalling from the first . There our now some excellent articals online exposing all of the misquotes and misinformation in the book Maybe you could examine this in depth and ask yourself and your husband why "the truth " tells so many lies to uphold it's teachings . I cannnot give practical advise as to how to fade , but I do know that God is answering the prayers of people in your situation by prompting people like me and others more knowledgeable to witness to the witnesses ! I , and I am sure , many others will pray for you
God bless your search for truth
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88
what takes away salvation
by jhine ini am certain that the watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies .
so logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "the truth " does anyone else agree with that statement ?
if so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of god alone ?
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jhine
Fernando , ta for your warm and hearty welcome, Psac so are they (Watchtower members ) not saved because they reject God's FREE GIFT of salvation ? D D are they children of God in light of Psac's comment that they reject God's gift of salvation ? discuss . What about Tornapart's observation that Christ has been sidelined in favour of the GB ? how does that fit into God's plan of salvation ? Designs , sorry to be so offfensive to you . Only looking at things from a Biblical point of veiw , isn't that what the Watchtower say they do ? Anyway don't loose sleep over it .
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88
what takes away salvation
by jhine ini am certain that the watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies .
so logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "the truth " does anyone else agree with that statement ?
if so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of god alone ?
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jhine
I am certain that the Watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies . So logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "The Truth " Does anyone else agree with that statement ? If so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of God alone ? Is it the belief that Jesus only mediates for the 144,000 ? or their refusal to take communion when Jesus says that you willo only enter the kingdom if you do ? Is it because they feel that they have to earn salvation , not that it is God's free gift through Jesus ? Will any of these teachings keep them from salvation , or indeed any other of their theology? What is the minimum requirement for salvation and do they fall short ? It is important to me to understand this and I hope that there are wiser and more informed people out there to help me understand.
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61
WHAT REASON DOES THE GOVERNING BODY HAVE TO DENY JESUS MEDIATOR-SHIP FOR EVERYONE?
by ÁrbolesdeArabia inaguest, jehovah-jirah, lars58, rick fearon, finkle, or another scholars on jwn.
what reason does the governing body have for telling.
seven million jehovah's witnesses, "jesus is not your man dude!
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jhine
Hi , I have followed this thread with interest , especially "goat " , you seem to have real insight into J. W. teaching . You asked what does the denying of Jesus' mediatorshp for everyone have to do with control . I have always understood (as someone outside of the org ) that the 144,000 were the only ones guaranteed salvation and that the rest had to wait and see if they had been good enough ie. if they had done enough work for the org. They always deny that this means that they have to earn salvation , which is of course not biblical as salvation is God's free gift . We are saved for good works prepared for us beforehand ,not by them . This does seem to me to be part of the control mechanism that because the rank and file are not under Jesus' mediatorship they have to work their socks off for the org. to try to "buy " their salvation . If I am wrong I look forward to being corrected as I really want to understand this issue trinity Janet