i know that a lynch mob forms whenever there's a hint of anybody being a pedophile, but the truth is that not all are the slavering, predatorial animals that they are painted to be.
each circumstance has its' own specifics.
in defense of the wts, they do keep track of confirmed pedophiles now.
stillin and DogGone , I will not wait for a reply , I think I know that I am in the insensitive category . God has got there first . I just listened to a sermon on the incident with the adulterous woman and Jesus word's
" let he (or she ) who is without sin cast the first stone " I am in no position to judge anyone . I appologise .
i know that a lynch mob forms whenever there's a hint of anybody being a pedophile, but the truth is that not all are the slavering, predatorial animals that they are painted to be.
each circumstance has its' own specifics.
in defense of the wts, they do keep track of confirmed pedophiles now.
DogGone , having read your post again , I think that you would put me in the name calling category , as in being judgemental of stillin and his actions . Yes I was . Anyone who has not been in the org really has trouble with understanding this . I posted in an emotional frame of mind , thinking that my child or grandchild could have been the next victim of that man and many more like him , going door to door . The blame lies with the Watchtower , and yes there is blame to aportion in this , I think that you would agree with that , but I must understand that the whole family in this situation is victim of the attitude of the Watchtower .
i know that a lynch mob forms whenever there's a hint of anybody being a pedophile, but the truth is that not all are the slavering, predatorial animals that they are painted to be.
each circumstance has its' own specifics.
in defense of the wts, they do keep track of confirmed pedophiles now.
stillin , thank you for your honest and polite reply . I was harsh , but I did and do believe in what I said . I can't appologise for feeling outrage at reading that this man was allowed to go on and molest others . I am a mother and grandmother , and I could not ( and if I'm honest still can't) get my head around anyone being comfortable with the thought that a child predator was not stopped in his tracks when the chance came .
It still confounds me the amount of influence that the org has over it's members . I am a Christian but would have no problem with reporting a paedopile to the police to bring justice to the victim and protect others . The Bible tells us to render unto Caesar etc and to obey the laws of the land , so to me the issue is clear cut . That makes me sound very smug and obviously for JWs the issue is not so clear cut .
LOst you seem to have insight into stillin's situation and maybe you are shaking your head at my attitude and saying "you don't understand " and I suppose that is correct . It is just really scary that this organisation puts its reputation above the welfare of all of it's members , parents and children alike .
Other religious groups have fallen short in the past ( to say the least ) but it does seem that they are learning and often it seems that it has been individuals in those groups making poor decisions , what is so awful about the watchtower is that the denial of problems is in the DNA of the org.
DogGone you mention two groups on this thread name callers and those who put thought into their opinions , I am not sure which category you put me in , but I do not mean to offend , I really am trying to understand this complicated issue being discussed here and the Watchtower's part both practical and emotional ( as in emotional blackmail ) .
i know that a lynch mob forms whenever there's a hint of anybody being a pedophile, but the truth is that not all are the slavering, predatorial animals that they are painted to be.
each circumstance has its' own specifics.
in defense of the wts, they do keep track of confirmed pedophiles now.
stillin, you did not answer my question , what did you say to your daughter about the man who hurt her ? how did you explain to her that he was still free to hurt other children ? Do you not see , yes you say it caught up with him eventually but how many OTHER children did he molest while no -one was doing anything ? Do you not care about the others that probably were molested by this man ?
How do you look your daughter in the eyes when she knows that you and your JW Friends did nothing to bring this man to justice , that she never got the chance to testify against him ( important to victims ) . Is she still in the org.?
You might not have found out until later but you should have , for her sake , reported him , to show your daughter that you take her welfare , physical , mental and spiritual , seriously . What do you feel about your wife keeping this from you ? You said that you admire her for keeping her faith in Jehovah , no , she kept her loyalty to the org .
I think that this defence of the org is an attempt to ease your guilt , for doing it their way , you are trying to justify their methods , which quite frankly stink .
I wonder if your daughter would agree with their methods and think that the outcome justified the means ?
i know that a lynch mob forms whenever there's a hint of anybody being a pedophile, but the truth is that not all are the slavering, predatorial animals that they are painted to be.
each circumstance has its' own specifics.
in defense of the wts, they do keep track of confirmed pedophiles now.
stillin 2 points , you have been asked if you had been a victim would your view be different ? Well my question is what if one of your children had been a victim ? of even what you seem to see as a not so serious assault ? Would you tell one of your own children not to whine , if they were waking at night crying , having nightmares , scared to see the attacker . How would you feel having to tell that child that nothing would be done because no-one else saw what happened ? and anyway what he or she did wasn't that serious !!
Also , you say that you admire your wife for keeping her faith in Jehovah . You seem to be falling into the trap that faith in God means having to be a JW . You yourself have faded so you say, so you know that there is something rotten in the state of Watchtower . Your wife can have a faith in God ( you have also said that you do not know that Jehovah is His name ) but not be a JW . There is enough evidence on line , indeed on this forum to show just how far off the mark they are in their theology to show that they cannot be trusted to explain a bus timetable never mind the Bible .
I am not having a go at r&f JWs , they are well meaning and deceived by the org. but if you are on this forum you are questioning .
in recent weeks the jw’s here in the uk have been setting up their new portable watchtower literature displays in my local town square on a saturday morning.
as they hadn’t knocked on my door for at least five years, and consequently feeling somewhat neglected, i thought that i would pay them a visit instead.. .
the first thing i needed to do was arrange my literature.
exwhyzee , I like your idea . I have placed some bits at the entrances to our local KHs but probably they were removed by elders before anyone could see .
I am a never JW Christian and I feel frustrated that my fellow churchites do not understand the full teaching , theology , brainwashing , cultishness of the Watchtower . Most do not engage JWs in counterwitnessing on the doorstep and I think that a concerted effort in one area whereby a lot of JWs are asked the same awkward questions and given the same embarassing information at one time would be fantastic .
I have not seen these booths in my area of Blighty , in fact yesterday I saw JWs out doing house to house .
well ,one of my relatives is studying with jws,she called me about the sexual abuse lawsuit against the jws,i told her i needed to talk to her about other things,she agreed ,and told me that it will be between us,any suggestions?.
Freethinking , yes there is a lot of info online to help . I agree with Problemaddict, do not trash the individual JW's , they do believe what they say and are mostly well meaning earnest people , but your relative as I said might be shocked by their (the JWs ) total disinclination to look at any material which shows the org. in a bad light . You can point,out that by continuing with them she would end up just as brainwashed and slavish to the GB rather than the bible .
well ,one of my relatives is studying with jws,she called me about the sexual abuse lawsuit against the jws,i told her i needed to talk to her about other things,she agreed ,and told me that it will be between us,any suggestions?.
Freethinking , you are most welcome . I do bang on a bit about that booklet , I may have mentioned it once ! before on other threads , but for someone who still has some thinking ability left it is probably one of the easiest ways to prove , from their own literature the lengths that they go to . All of the early church chappies do in one form or another agree with the Divinity of Christ and /or full blown Trinity teaching . Pre Nicene people like Justyn Martyr do use their own language to express these ideas but any thinking person can see their point.
In the original "SYBITT" booklet the Church fathers are praised and extolled . Randall ( I'm British , can't call him Randy ) Watters tells the story about how this very subject started his quest for TTATT . Others will know this story so if I get anything wrong please correct me . He , Randall says that during his time at Bethel he read the "SYBITT" book and as a young man with some time but no money (he was at Bethel ) he decided to look further at the Church Fathers . He says that he was shocked at what he found . Huge discrepancies between the booklet and what was actually written by these men . Cherry picked quotes and half quotes made it seem as if these early teachers of the church did not teach what the church now teaches , but something more akin to the JW position .
One doozy is the statement that "Justyn Martyr called the pre-incarnate Jesus a created angel " now if you read his works whe does use the word angel in the same sentence as Christ but he is attempting to prove to the Jews the existance of a Divine Christ in the OT , he argues that Christ is the Angel of God who in the OT was the same as the presence of God . Justyn is actually defending the teaching of the Divinity of Christ .
there are many exposes of this booklet online TowerWatch ministries do a good one . Loyal winesses will not look , of course at the evidence cus they won't be disloyal to the org .If your relative can see the reality of this she will probably be interested in the reaction of her JW "friends " when she questions them . She might be able to grasp the level of brainwashing that they have received !
God be with you
i have been lurking for a long time here and i think i'm prepared to speak about this experience openly.. .
i was born in a jw family and i grew up as the average jehovah's witness does.
even being very young, i helped with the territories and other work in the congregation.
bumped
well ,one of my relatives is studying with jws,she called me about the sexual abuse lawsuit against the jws,i told her i needed to talk to her about other things,she agreed ,and told me that it will be between us,any suggestions?.
Freethinking , I think that she might already know about the blood issue , Christmas , birthdays etc those are the things that most people do know about the Watchtower , though of course brings these things up . You could also bring up their habit of mis-quoting others to give credence to their theology . A good place to start is the " Should You Believe In The Trinity ? "booklet the original one if you have it or can get it . Show her the quotes from the Early Church Fathers , Tertullian etc and then show her what these men really wrote , easily found online . The two have little resemblance . Then explain that when some JWs found this out a new booklet was printed , basically saying that you can't pay much heed to these writers , the opposite of what is said in the first booklet .That will show their willingness to not only mis-quote but also change their opinions on people to suit themselves .
Hope that this helps
