the daily wire.
facebook glitch reveals father, activist behind greta thunberg's facebook .... i'm not good at getting links right.
but this is interesting in light of greta supposedly doing things on her own according to dear old dad.
l do wonder how some of her ideas will impact on the poorest people . If we all gave up air travel then countries that rely on tourism ( of which many are very poor countries ) would be up the creek for example .
Jan
hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .
during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .
both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .
l said that l would do a straw poll about the " all " Col 1:20 , so through extensive research ( not ) l asked 6 people at random what their thoughts were about that " all " . They all said that it meant all ( are you still following this ) , everything , the lot etc .
Not sure what that proves except that some people in my church are consistent in their all .
Jan
hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .
during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .
both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .
Firstly , yes JoenB75 , l think that the " all " in those verses refers to all the people present at the time . So , as you say , all the people at the river listening to John . Not all of Israel , that is why l see no problem with all meaning all .
Ratigan350 l , like Vanderhoven7 would like to know where the Bible teaches that Jesus was created .
The Psalms are full of verses making it clear that God / Jehovah created everything Himself .
Psalm 8 : 3
When l consider your heavens , the work of your fingers , the moon and the stars which you set in place .
Psalm 19 : 1
The heavens declare the glory of the Lord , the skies proclaim the work of his hands
Psalm 24 1-2
The earth is the Lord's and everything in it ; for he founded it on the seas and established it on the waters .
That last one is interesting as Col 1 : 16 says " For in him ( the Son ) all things were created ..... all things have been created through him and for HIM "
So it seems to me that the writer of Colossians is at pains to make the point that Jesus is not a created being .
Jan
hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .
during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .
both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .
No problem JoenB57 , and for the record l do see the all in Col 1:20 as all . Out of interest l will conduct a straw poll in my church on that one . I cannot remember it being discussed in Bible study .
TD l have looked into Luke11:42 and 21:29 and yes my NIV does ad "other " in there , some translations don't . l can't see why for the life of me but it doesn't change the meaning of the teaching . Having looked at the rest of the examples and checking some commentaries l don't think that the "all " in them needs to be qualified and again the gist of the passages are not compromised anyway .
In the case of John 1:3 the addition of " other " obviously does alter the meaning . The whole verse in the literal translation reads " All things through him came into being , and without him came into being not even one thing that has come into being " Doesn't the final part of the verse indicate that the " all " is meant to be all ? It seems so to me .
When you add in other verses to get this into context , such as Col 1:15 " The Son is the image of the invisible God , the firstborn of all creation . Col 1 : 19 "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him " to me this backs up the belief that Jesus was not a created being , like MIchael the Archangel as the WT teaches .
l realise that not everyone will see it like this , but l do think that this is a conversation worth having with JWs .
Jan
hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .
during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .
both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .
Just to get back quickly to JoenB75 as a Tinitarian who is part of a worldwide Trinitarian church , Anglican , our teaching is that The Word , Jesus , is God made man .
This is taken from the Catholic Encyclopaedia
"and transforms it by showing that this creative Word which from all eternity was in God and was God, took flesh and dwelt among men "
So the same thing . l would say that in fact most Trinitarians believe that Jesus is God in the flesh .
Jan
hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .
during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .
both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .
πάντα . l looked this up in Bible Hub Greek interlinear and every possible meaning includes all , every , total ,the lot etc . No doubt that this word is totally inclusive , NOTHING that was made was made without him . Adding the word thing is not changing the meaning . All that was made is the same as every thing that was made .
It's adding other that changes it .
Vanderhoven l was asking about both . Without the word other the meaning ( and intent of the writer ) seems clear .
A lot is said about putting verses into context . Well Paul starts this passage by saying the Christ is the image of the invisible God . He goes on to say " For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him "
How do JWs square all this with their teaching that Jesus is a created angel ?
l am curious about the statement that fire breathing evangelicals utterly deny Col 1:20 . Why do you say this JoenB57 ?
As l am neither a JW or a firebreathing evangelical , just a mild mannered Anglican , l hope that hypocrisy is not one of the things that l can be accused of , with regard to this at least .
I am asking because l would like to be prepared when chatting to JWs and asking about this .
Jan
hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .
during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .
both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .
Hi , would someone help me please with some info about the NWT . During my study time l have been reading John 1:1-14 and Colossians 1:15-17 . Both these passages indicate that Jesus was not created as the WT asserts .
John 1:3 " Through him ALL things were made , without him NOTHING was made that has been made "
NIV International Version , capitals mine for emphasis .
Would some kind person let me know if the NWT changes these verses to alter the meaning . If not how can the borg justify their teaching about Jesus .
Thanks in advance , Jan
i was just looking at some happy holidays / xmas cards some of us sent each other at the close of 2016 of the cards i received only a few of them have your jwn name on them ,the other `s gave me their real names which i cant reveal here.. however this post is for everybody that is on this forum not just to the few i`m referring to.just to clarify .. and i was going to send greetings to you all this year for 2020.. one was from hawaii.
milwaukee.
berlin.
Hi Xanthippe , how sad that you lost your beloved pet . They really are like part of your family .
Yes we are going to the Garrick . The play is Away in a Danger ( Christmas Carol Casebook ) . It's one of those where 4 or 5 people play a cast of thousands , well not quite . We have seen a few productions by the same group and they are very funny .
Happy New Year to everyone .
Jan
i was just looking at some happy holidays / xmas cards some of us sent each other at the close of 2016 of the cards i received only a few of them have your jwn name on them ,the other `s gave me their real names which i cant reveal here.. however this post is for everybody that is on this forum not just to the few i`m referring to.just to clarify .. and i was going to send greetings to you all this year for 2020.. one was from hawaii.
milwaukee.
berlin.
So did everyone survive Christmas with their sanity still more or less in tact ? Did anyone actually enjoy Christmas , l did .
What are your plans for New Year's Eve ? We are off to the theatre in Lichfield for a comedy matinee , then a meal .
Jan
i do it most years.
being in the uk, virtually every other country nearby drives on the right.
we drive on the left.
I have to say that l have thought about this a lot since all the hoo haa about the diplomat's wife and the young man's death .
Firstly let me say for anyone who doesn't know that my son died at the age of 25 so l DO know about the loss of a child .
However as a Brit who has never driven in a foreign country ( on the wrong side ) and l couldn't , hand on heart , say that l wouldn't get muddled up as to which side to be on . So l really don't know how to feel about this situation .
Jan
