xjw.
tracy metcalfe https://www.facebook.com/tracy.metcalfe.100?hc_location=streamof ex-jehovah's witness recovery group 3 on facebook.
started a letter writing campaign a few yrs ago to congregations.
This may very well be legit, but it just seems odd. A letter like that sent to congregations en mass, would be intercepted by the elders. I am pretty certain the elders would not exactly be passing it down to the rank and file.
So how is it these young people got his info? The letter is well written, bu t a JW apologist would have a feild day with it. Its not like its iron clad.
I don't know. Just seems odd.
he called me yesterday, as he does every once in a while out of the clear blue...just to chat.
that's the best part, it wasnt' a memorial invite or tragic news.. my parents only ring me about deaths or to say hi to my little ones and see that i still have a pulse, and i only ring them to speak to my sister (with down's syndrome, she doesn't have her own phone) and tell them i love them.. my youngest brother only called once as a sheparding visit upon becoming knighted, or eldered, whatever it's called.
and my other brother and i havent had contact in five years (which is kind of amazing, as he was always a daredevil rebel).. my older brother, though, warmed my heart by being a bad boy and calling me and texting photos.
Hello FFF,
I don't recall speaking to you before. You are a better person than me. If my parents insisted on shunning me, there is no way they would be allowed to phone my children. So good on ya.
You know, all of us started with one little ray of rebellion, a small piece of something we allow ourselves to do against the wishes of the religion. That can grow. My wife has partially began her own wake up behind looking at the disfellowshipping doctrine.
It is one that deeply impacts families and lives in a unique way. I think that people instinctively have issue with someone saying you can't even speak to your family......because we said they are kicked out of this religion (for whatever reason). So sometimes peoples own conscience can be a weapon in your favor. It is against there better nature to listen to the GB, and you can appeal to that by not pressing the issue, and responding in kind.
i just got done with another visit at my home with two elders and even though i tried to say very little they took anything they could as a disagreement with them as enough to say they may call a jc meeting after they talk to the rest of the elder body.
so since they are planning on dfing me any way, i'm wondering if i should just write a letter or go through with their meeting?.
If you didn't give them much, why do they feel they can go the JC route? That is kind of odd.
I would say if you truely believe they have made up their mind, get serious about it, get ready to record it, and go at it. Since you are anticipating their actions, have some very specific questions already going in your mind. Go in there knowing you are recording it.
If you don't have the stomach for that no worries. Just refuse to meet with them. Tellt hem you want the reason they want to meet with you, and what you are being charged with in writing. Don't DA. Like others have said, its not even a real thing. its simply something they made up. Don't allow they to screw with you.
the watchtower and the jws use the following reasoining to "prove" that elders are appointed by holy spirit.. 1) the bible was written under inspiration of the holy spirt.. 2) the bible requirements for and elder are followed when selecting and appointing elders.. 3) therefore, the elders are appointed by holy spirt.. thre is a logical flaw in this argument.. consider the following counter example.. suppose that a person obtains a book on medicine written by a doctor a, and that the person follows the instructions in the book concerning the writing a prescription.. 1) can the perscription that the person wrote be considered as having been written by doctor a?.
2) can the perscription that the person wrote even be considered as having been written under the direction of doctor a?.
the answer to both questions is "no.".
Here is the logical error I see.
Elders are appointed by HS.
Elder commits fraud, rape, sin, molestation, etc...
Q - Did he fake out the holy spirit or did we get it wrong?
A - Elders are still people and prone to sin.
Q - So Jehovah doesn't appont all elders by holy spirit then?
A - No he does, through the bibles qualifications and the influence on the body.
Q - So Jehovah made this particular evil person an elder not to further his work but to test the congregation?
A - "With evil things God cannot be tried", Jehovah allows these things to happen, but doesn't cause them.
Q - So you are saying Jehovah did not cause him to be an elder? Isn't that the same thing? I mean the branch supported his appointment.
A - Well maybe when he was appointed he was fine and later became corrupted, and now Jehovah has brought it to the fore.
Q - So if Jehovah brought it to the fore, why did he wait after ____ happened since his heart condition was headed that direction from Gods perspective. Better yet, how do you know this guy wasn't_____ing before he was appointed. Are you making an assumption?
etc.....
There is no logic in the belief that the elders will be cheiftans in the new world, that they are the stars in the hands of Christ in the Revelation vision, and that they can ONLY become one of these by being appointed by their local branch....the conduit of holy spirit apparently.
What a mess.
i found it important to be honest with my wife.
so i told her about my conscience decision that in a medical urgency i want blodless medicine but if a transfusion of blood or the 4 prohibited components is necessary to save my life or health i would accept it.
this would apply especially also for our child (that is not such a problem as in our country the wts recommends to comply with doctors as they have the right to decide concerning minors).. i showed her the reasons why i came to that conscience decision (biblical and logical reasons) and that jehovah and jesus do not like anyone to die because of this wrong bible application.. .
Daniel,
My guess is that you are used to a more liberal organization that most of us being in Switzerland. They may simply try to reason with you and that would be the end of it. if they ask you the "loyalty questions" as JWfacts brought out, do not answer yes or no. Give them another answer. Something like, "well I certainly believe the slave tries their best but they are imperfect as well". Something that deflects, and doesn't make you lie (unless you don't care about that i guess).
In addition, have your arsenal ready just in case. Reason with them from the sciptures. 3 of my favorite points are below.
1) White blood cells are forbidden but make up less than 1% of blood volume. Ambumin (a protein) makes up more than double that, but is allowed. Who decided this? What is the principle it is based on? In the medical community those are both "fractions" of whole blood.
2) Jesus told the Pharisees that David was justified in eating the showbread, because life was at stake. How does Jehovah feel about children with sickle cell anemia or trauma situations where nothing but whole blood will do? What was the point of "mercy not sacrifice" in Jesus words.
3) The prohibition was on eating blood specifically. If you are bleeding out, you cannot drink blood and live. if you are starving, you cannot put food in your veins, you need a feeding tube. Could ones conscience decide that a blood transfusion is using the blood for its intended purpose?
Bonus: The Noachian creed was a dietary restriction, and the animals were bleed because they were dead. Well you are not getting blood from dead donors. They are very much alive! In the case of organ transplants which are a "conscience matter" the donor is usually dead.
Record it! You don't have to share it unless you want to. maybe just a transcript. This is the best weapon we have right now.
Also, be respectful. DOn't get into a mess. Your wife will see you went, and that is that. If she thinks you were hard headed more than they just didn't have the answers, it could make that difficult.
i can't believe he used the term "the late brian griffin" in a thread, causing me to google if he meant the the brian griffin i know and love.. it seems it's true :-(.
Ratings were down. They did this to get a buzz. Brian will be back. The outrage is too great.
before i dive into the actual write-up of this experience, let me put some things straight.. i have thought long and hard if i should write more about my experiences during the 10+ years at different branches.
during these years i worked from financial department, service department, home office and different it assignments.
as you can imagine one sees and hears and reads a lot of stuff going through different stations in different countries.
Hello BP,
You can understand why people would want you to "come out" or "name names". We of course respect your privacy fiercely, and I am sure we are grateful for your truthful renditions of what you have been through. I always think to myself if some of my stories I am being selfish with. While I was never a heavy, there are definitly some behind the scenes things I could get down with.
Maybe someday soon. They would reveal too much about me, and I believe more and more that people are watching this site with various intent.
I look forward to further posts by you and the stories.
P.S. - Could you clarify what was meant by caught red handed? Did they actually catch him molesting another young boy? After all that it just seems odd.
i understand that they claim to have the responsibility to preach to every corner of the earth, so they can encourage armageddon to come quickly.
(matthew 24:14 "and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
what rationale do they have, for keeping track of their hours and literature placements?
They will say there is a record taking precident in the scriptures. For example Acts says ____ many souls were added in that day. They use this to suggest that some basic record keeping is reasonable. After all someone counted them right?
Also, they will say since we are all charged to be ministers, that someones faith possibly being shipwrecked will first show up on their field service report. They may be getting less hours, or becoming inactive. it helps them identify who needs help the most.
So those will be the responses if they are smart. Here are the replys.
The ____ souls that were added were a round number. Its not like they counted to the man, and it jsut ended up even. Looks like an approximation was good enough. Counting baptisms however is not the same as counting time, and there is no precident for that in scripture.
Only so much can be determined by a time card. If I am hearing this right, ones spiritual state can be determined by the amount of hours in the ministry reported? What about the number of placements of literature? What is that a barometer of? If we are really following scriptural precident, it doesn't seem anyone kept track of anyone elses offerings, and they also only used scripture and reason. Is that what happens today?
Also, its of note I believe this started under Rutherford during a time in American history when corporations and other companies really began to discover data mining and metrics. Think Dale Carnegie etc...
frowned upon is a lurking member here.
he never posts, but actively reads.
he went home yesterday to attend a family wedding.
So here is my thought. Since the wedding was already attended (was it?), are we not in kind of a damage control situation? If he went home for the wedding, do they know of his fade?
The advise given is key. You really have to let the nerves go. Redirect the conversation. Stay at the "higher level". In board rooms and corporate settings, high level operations take place almost on a different wavelength as the rest of the company. You need to operate at that higher level. Maintain control. Be happy and be yourself. Seeing family, and going to a wedding shouldn't be a chore. in fact, pretend it isnt!
It will take time and seeing out your own personal motives and circumstances to decide how to proceed and what is best. it gets better. it gets easier. Always take the high road. Always express love and show kindness. You can't go wrong.
this is a very strange thing for me to do.
i have been an active witness for over 25 years.
i currently serve as an elder and i conduct the watchtower study.
thedog1,
First of all welcome to the board. Like many others, I was once just a guy in a KH serving Jehovah the way that i thought was proper. I was serving in the congregation, serving in foreign countries (I am home in California now), building KH's, pioneering, and all that jazz.
I decided to challenge my faith when a bible student of mine made a point about birthdays and blood.
Birthdays.
He said a few things. If the context of the events surrounding where birthdays is the important part, then why do we use indoor plumbing? Indoor plumbing was only mentioned twice in the bible and it was done by bad people? Also, if its what the first century Christians did, well then we shouldn't be using wind chimes, wearing wedding rings, or celebrating anniversaries. They also did not do these things. Who decides what is right and wrong? It was hard to argue with that logic. I researched how we decided birthdays wrong and what the penalties were. It was very telling. If it was any other religion I would have scoffed at it. I tried hard to make it fit. I could even justify that it shouldn't be done. But if someone celebrates their birthday should they be refused a Christian baptism, or disfellowshipped?! No justification scripturally for that.
Blood.
I had a child. There were complications. I could refuse blood, but what about my wife and child? I decided if they needed blood, I would give it to them without their knowledge. Then Jehovah would hold ME accountable. So yes I would die, but my family would live. Then I thought about how insane that was. Did I believe ina God less loving and understand than me, so that i would be willing to sacrifice my life (before him), to circumvent a law so my child wouldn't die? It made me study blood in detail. Once I really did that (still doing it), it was clear to me that the scriptures do not teach or say what I thought they did. It was the ultimate betrayal.
My wife was a pioneer for 16 years. 16. It was half her life. Its all she knew. Every friend and family member we have is a JW. I tried to express doubts to the brothers, and that was a mistake. I brought up innocent questions about the generation teaching and was treated with hostility when they couldn't answer questions. Many here still attend meetings because of fear with their family.
Dog, you need to really make sure you figure out what YOU really believe right now. Don't follow the compulsion to speak or to act. Research in the archives here. There was a time when this board was pretty scholarly in nature, and even attracted some JW apologists. Compare it with your CD rom. Decide for yourself if schanging the language in books to reflect something not happening is something you think is ok or shadey. Decide for yourself if having white blood cells refused when they make up .6% of blood volume, but Albumin is ok being 2% blood volume.....makes any sense. Decide for yourself if even the concept of "new light" means what you thought it did.
Read that scripture in proverbs again. Think about the book it is in. it is a book or prophecy? Are you reading a proverb, or a prophecy. if you didn't already have an understanding of that scripture, how would it read.
No matter what you do, you have a group of people here that understand EXACTLY how you feel and what you are going through, and will support you NO MATTER your final decisions.
Once again......welcome.
