Oh man. More of this artificial nonsense to whip up the frenzy. What in the world is a "branch visit" for the United States.....when the main hub is already in the United States? Don't you "visit" a place you don't already live?
Odd.
problemaddict
JoinedPosts by problemaddict
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30
BOE Letter: We want to suck three hours out of your life
by pixel into all congregations in the united states branch territory re: branch visit in november 2014 .
dear brothers: .
on february 11, 2014, the bethel family was excited to learn that a branch visit is sched- uled for the united states.
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Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"
by DATA-DOG inas of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.
when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.
this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.
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problemaddict
Hello DOT,
Well sir you have stirred the pot! :) First of all, welcome to the board and kudos for taking on a subject that no doubt you are very much "on an island", while here on this board.
I would submit to you a balanced viewpoint to consider.
It is common, for those who even as Jehovahs prophets or annointed ones of the past, to have "made mistakes. SO I am with you on that. In fact, at the end of John, a "saying went out among the brothers that John would not die". Of course Jesus did not say that. They were misinterpreting things within days of jesus death apparently. Also, Rev Ch 2-3 shows the congregations, made up entirely of annointed, were doing all kinds of crazy things. He said he would "hold it against them" if they didn't change, and it appears they did not, and the foretold apostacy comes to light then after (or during) the ECF's.
So on the surface I understand the branches explanation. They do not claim to be infallible (nor does any rational person), but they claim to be Gods mouthpiece. So you are Gods fallible mouthpiece. Do you see the contradiction?
Think about the following.
1) The people you are using to compare in this situation (Abraham, Moses), were spoken to by Gods angels in a different time when Jehovah seemed to interject himself much more directly. This is not what happens today is it? When you say they are "working with holy spirit", since there is no miraculous helper today, doesn't that mean just trying to do what we all try to do? Read the bible, pray, and attempt feebly to be Christians?
2) The bible clearly states the gifts of the spirit will "cease" at the end of the apostles. The snake priest guy who just got killed is a good example of faith healing and gifts of the spitir being bunk. But it isn't just healing and speaking in tongues that would cease. Please go back and read the scripture. The gifts of knowledge and understanding....ALSO would cease. They are mentioned right there with the rest of them. So how can the GB claim miraculous wisdom (given by God through extraordinary means), when it doesn't claim seaking in tongues.....and they were BOTH gifts?
3) What is the humble road here? In other words, if you claim no special status before God, claim you are his mouthpiece but also don't have a special relationship with the holy spirit (may 2007), and that you can be in error.....why do you then ENFORCE uniformity of belief through shunning? Why would the GB do that, when they could just be wrong about it anyways? Why not allow people to use their conscience in matters that are ambiguous or not directly stated? Like birthdays, blood, generation that will not "pass away", identity of the slave....why not allow for variance in belief? Would it harm the ministry? no. Would it cause dissent? With the current attitude yes, but I bet in the long term it would create a less stressed and more open group of people, who can discuss the bible without feeling like they have to tow the party line and suppress free expression.
4) What if they are wrong about something serious...like organs, vaccines, or blood fractions? Look up "community bloodguilt" in the insight book or index. It is an interesting thing to get their take on. I believe they have unknowingly declared themselves bloodguilty.
I think the main focus is this. You have been taught (as we all have been), that UNITY = UNIFORMITY. That simply is not true. There is such a thing as needless debates about words.....no question. But in matters of the modern era, so far removed from scripture, and without miraculous gifts of the spirit......you have to be a Boerean!
You said who are you to question them? Who are you not to! What evidence of their individual appointment do you have? When has anyone been required to blindly follow others for their salvation? Especially post jesus sacrifice? I am not saying you should not work with them, I am not saying you should hate them....who cares. What I am saying, is that you should, and are expected by Jehovah, to think for yourself.
It always amazes me that every group of people who have claimed to serve God in the bible ended up loosing his favor......but all of a sudden that has become an impossibility in peoples minds.
Study more DOT. Truth stands up. I don't agree with everyone here, and they don't all agree with me. That is free expression, and if you care for it, Christian freeedom. Dissenting information is just information you may not agree with. Discussing viewpoints scripturally that may not always coincide will not lead to mass hysteria or sect divisions. An overtly pharisaical, legalistic view of what must be adhered to even though it could be "old light" a week from now......THAT is what causes the issues.
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They don't know what to do....
by pbrow inhave been going to a few meetings to support my kids that have to go with their mother.
i knew it would be a powerful lesson for them to see how these loving people treat their father who da'd a while ago.
couple of elders tried to corner me the 2nd or 3rd time i went to remind me that i cant talk to anyone.... i however reminded them that i am not df'd and i can talk to whomever i want to.
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problemaddict
I love it. Of course....you can talk to whomever you want! Why would you not be able to right?
Its such a silly thing, to think at one time we believed these guys could tell us what we could and could not do. It never ceases to surprise me that such simple things we hand over to others.
I hate to say it, but because of this affect simply saying "hello" to others has, why not keep going with your kids and just keep on saying hi to everyone! Kids will see whats up.
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Bizarre comment about jw.org at SAD
by sir82 inrecently attended a sad.. bethel speaker was gushing about the wt's embrace of new technology, in the part of his talk warning about "apostate" web sites.. a loose summary of his comments:.
"and the brothers at headquarters have made it very safe for you to go to our website.
in fact, the brothers talked to the folks at google, and they made a special arrangement so that when you type in 'j w period' into the google search engine, it automatically shows you the jw.org website.
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problemaddict
JW.org could sponsor themselves to be first. Can't they? Why is that so out of the realm of possibility?
If I type in JW. I get nothing about ex JW's for several pages. To vague. JW.org is the first site to pop up.
If I type inanything else, including jw.org, I get JWfacts as number 4 on the list. JW.org still number one.
I am sure it is fine if it is number one. I am abslutely posative it is visited by 10's of thousands of people a day, especially if it is being used in the ministry now, and everyone got the ok to use the tech.
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Governing Bodies Secret Elder's training video on suicide leaked
by Watchtower-Free inwatchtower minions have pulled down jwsurveys links .
here's another one .. the gb should be held liable for this crap.
http://www.mediafire.com/watch/cvas6fcrc9zca94/shepherding_instructional_suicidal_widow.avi.
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problemaddict
This has t be sent to people, so it gets mirrored. Sparlock is all over the place for example.
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The Judicial Committee videos in english
by confusedandalone innot sure if this has been posted but the jwsurvey site received the videos in english from someone.. this crap is pathetic to watch.
how to counsel someone who is suicidal... really.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/doubts-over-organizational-solidarity-as-disturbing-video-on-handling-suicide-is-leaked.
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problemaddict
Oye Vey!
This was a rough one. The highlights in my mind were....
I'm too close to this kid to be objective (ie: I might look for mercy because I love him)
Stop seeing this woman you impregnated.
"I think I might have told you all too much already. (WTF?)
Never suggesting to a suicidal widow that she may want to speak to a counselor or professional in dealing with grieving.
Consider thoughts of suicide the same way you would "immoral thoughts".
I REALLY hope these things stay up on the internet, and get mirrored all over the place. These videos need to be sent to everyone. Its just so crazy sounding to us, but even moreso to those that never once considered it normal.
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Jehovah's Witnesses recieve $30,000 grant to cover for assembly costs
by Watchtower-Free insee bottom of article.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?story_id=542296.
friday, february 21, 10:08 am estby max marbut, staff writer.
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problemaddict
Makes me wonder if grant money helps determine where some of these conventions are held no? Does the city realize that beyond some hotel rooms, the financial impact of a convention is not quite as high as the number of people coming into town would have you believe?
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BOTR- Announcement
by Band on the Run inlaw school is obviously not the hardest program to follow.
it isn't something that can be replicated on the internet.
a first year student can find the law.
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problemaddict
Why is it that anyones area of expertise, needs to not be discussed? isn't that the point of any community? To pool experiences and life, and occasionally help others with what you can offer them, in hope they do the same for others?
This is really an odd thread. Not knowing what in particular set you off, there are so many people here, why be troubled by a few comments you dont like? There are good lawyers, there are bad ones. I think they can make a bit too much for what they do, but then again, a good lawyer is in very high demand. What the hell does this have to do with you speaking on a JW conversation board? There are others here with legal training that comment on various topics.
I guess I simply don't understand. You have been around here quite abit, but this post reeks of self serving importance and seeking pity. Doesn't sound like you. Then again.....I don't really know you do I?
This board is uncensored generally. So we get all sorts. Develope a filter, and you will be happier. Contribute to helping others, and you will be happier. Don't put som much importance on "self" and your 7 years fo education, and you will be happier.
Enjoy your time off! Take care.
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My Judicial Meeting was 6 WEEKS ago! Help me with a question.
by Comatose inmy judicial meeting was 6 weeks or more ago, and still no action.
i used a lawyer and a letter to them after i had already met with them and admitted everything.
the crazy part was they didn't tell me that night if i was df or not.
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problemaddict
Once someone is represented by an attorney, then that is how you communicate with them.
So.....ask your attorney to contact them (or the legal department), for verification you will not be bothered or that they will seek religious reprisal.
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3 years of study, Just found out!
by impala63rag inhello friends, .
i would like some advice from those that are inpartial, and are familiar with the teachings of jw.
i studied with a wonderful jw couple weekly for 3 years.
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problemaddict
Hey Impala,
Thanks for the update. May I respectfully ask you a question? What "made sense" about their response? Alot of JWisms are simply semantics.
Do the GB speak for God? - Of course not. The bible does. But since they only teach biblical truths, they are supported by the holy spirit although not directly inspired.
What!? What does that mean? It means nothing. What if they teach something NOT as truth from the bible (which they have a long history of?). Then what? Why if they are not inspired, must you follow THEM in order to be approved by God?
The correlations between these men and Moses....casually in the WT lessons, put anyone who does not agree with them as Korah! Pretty amazing.
In addition, disfellowshipping has nothing to do with the scripture they showed you. It was talking about apersonal issue you have with your brother. Go speak to them if there is fault. if they tell you to shove off, take an advocate. If they insist on continuing to _____, treat them as a "tax collector". Tax collectors were not thought highly of, but let me ask you this. If someone was a tax collector, did their family never speak to them? Were they shunned publicly?
I don't smoke. I think tabacco and cigarette companies are generally evil. A "sales rep" for Marlboro would not be on my list for persn of the year. In fact, I may not think highly of them for what they do for a living. But would I refuse to speak to them?
Nothing about the JW shunning policy is biblical. Here is what you can ACTUALLY be disfellowshipped for, including ACTUAL experiences here that people have gone through.
1) Celebrating your birthday or a forbidden holiday.
2) Commiting a sin and the elders finding out about it before you tell them (this is considered a lack of "godly sadness")
3) Disgreeing with any "current" understanding as taught by the GB and telling anyone about your thoughts even casually.
4) Damn near anything else, you are deemed unrepentant for. I personally knew someone DF'd for seeing a rated R movie, and telling the elders they would not meet with them over it. Can you believe it? I knew another person DF'd for not believing in 1914, and not recanting.
5) Saluting the flag.
6) Voting.....even in local elections over minor things like propositions.
AND MUCH MORE.
The process for DFing? 3 elders have you in a room by yourself. They are led by a manual you are not allowed to read "sheperd the flock of God". They have you explain in detail what happened (imagine you fornicated which is pretty common). Then they have you leave the room while they discuss it. Then they bring you back in and tell you whats up, or call you the next day.
Any of that in the bible? If you want to bring a witness/advocate with you....they refuse and will not allow it, and will DF you in abstentia.
Any of that in the bible?
I appreciate you love these people, and they have a religion to support and are probably sincere....but they are soft peddleing this to you. Pure and simple.
That being said, it is your life, and you need to make the decisions best for you and the fam. I hope things are well with you. If you want any help in your discussions with them, just let me know.