Posts by Simon

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Simon

The thing that I can't help thinking about is that these "Marko" allegations were apparently made many years ago, before his latest confession video about his behavior, and before he released his book where he also admitting to some things (all these things being similar in nature).

Yet the accusation itself, the language in it, the "excuse" used, match exactly with what he used in those subsequently (OK, the accusation is not exactly the same, you wouldn't expect him to admit to it on YouTube, but it's something "along the same spectrum" of activity, so aligns with it).

I don't know if the allegations are true or not, I can only speculate, but what are the chances of Lloyd going on to be caught and use the exact same language, the same excuse, and it be for something along the same lines? If it was all made up, that is one hell of a lucky shot!

We can't prove if it's true, but so far no one (to my knowledge) has been able to prove that it's false based on various technical analysis that would be exceedingly easy for someone to get wrong. Almost to the point that it would have to be so professionally done that you have to imagine some CIA type doing it, which seems more unbelievable than it being true.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Simon

Is it a conspiracy to frame a guy or is it real? Either way, we would want to know if Watchtower did a serious cover up of a guy who allegedly harmed children, or if another guy went out of his way to play on our emotions and try to frame someone?

I've seen two versions, one has Lloyd as a WTS plant / double-agent. I think that is really fanciful, and not how they operate. Although IMO he has damaged the exJW community, I think that isn't anything todo with them or any plan by them.

But could they have covered up something he was personally involved with? We know for a fact that they do things like that, and he himself campaigns that they do, so yes, it's certainly possible and would align with some things we do know. I struggle to think of what else fits with the claim he's made that he has something on them but refuses to release it and refused to record his own judicial committee meeting, using the bizarre and nonsensical claim that he wouldn't "because he has nothing to hide". Are those things linked? Who knows ...

So maybe "conspiracy lite"? Who knows ...

13

Is jehovahs-witness.com legitimately and reliably independent of WTB&TS and peripheral, aligned entities?

by great-trivialization in

forum
links

i am new to this forum and uncertain that this is legitimately and entirely independent of conniving jw controllers or the wtb&ts and its related entities.

markers like the use of jw.org in the forum description and the policies seem controlled/controlling vs other xjw forums.

this is not an accusation, it is an attempt to know enough to be comfortable with motives of the ownership and controllers of the forum.

Simon

I am new to this forum and uncertain that this is legitimately and entirely independent of conniving JW controllers or the WTB&TS and its related entities.

I created and run this site. It's been running for 22 years. It is independent of the WTS or any current, ex, or pretending to be ex, JWs.

Markers like the use of JW.ORG in the forum description and the policies seem controlled/controlling vs other xjw forums.

The inclusion of "JW org" is because it's likely to be something people may be searching for.

The policies are hardly onerous or even unusual, they are fairly standard if you want any kind of civil environment. They aim to have people moderate their own content.

it is an attempt to know enough to be comfortable with motives of the ownership and controllers of the forum.

My motives for the forum existing continue to be what they were, which is to provide a relatively safe environment where people can discuss things and get support if they are considering leaving the WTS.

27

When this is over...

by joey jojo in

jw
friends

what will the world be like once this pandemic is over?

the world has been through this before, in the form of the bubonic plague and it left changes to life still felt today, especially in regards to the economic system.

so many people dying meant a smaller working class that meant their skills and labour was suddenly more valuable which in turn raised wages.

Simon

The wealthy got significantly wealthier

Governments became more authoritarian and controlling

Small businesses and individuals got screwed over

So the world didn't change that much, it just amplified what was going on.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Simon

Does Tony Morris look like the type of guy that shares his food and liquor? If he sent an assistant to buy it, he would have been obligated to at least buy the guy his own bottle.

My initial thought was that he's most likely buying it as gifts for people. Possibly those that work with him / for him.

Damn, I could have made a 3 hours video about it instead of simply stating the bleedin' obvious ...

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Simon

I don't know why, but you're giving me Hong Kong Fooey vibes

Yeah, that's me - number-one super guy, quicker than the human eye. Ha, I remember that cartoon!

I think he's making statements about legal action in the hopes of getting people to stop talking about his situation, both the parts that are known for sure and the parts that are speculation or not corroborated (yet?). He might be creating a version of the Streisand Effect, where your efforts to stop people from talking about something end up drawing even more attention to it.

I agree, he's still handling this all wrong. The best thing he could have done is come out and say he'd messed up, apologize to everyone he'd hurt and let down and promise to do better. Then take a loooong break.

I think the opportunity to do that has long passed and this act he's doing of carrying on as though everything is fine is going to backfire.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Simon

she said that Djiana knows about screenshots, and letters

The letters? Do you mean from the alleged PIMO elder?

I don't know anymore if everyone is even talking about the same things!

That was an interesting discussion. A few tidbits that were new.

Personally, the whole exJW thing ... the reason there aren't better examples of people who leave is that the better examples move on. You don't hear about "the teacher" who is an exJW because they are not constantly waiving a flag saying "look at me, I am an exJW who had a mildly conservative quirky religious upbringing but survived".

The problem is that all the oxygen in the room is being consumed by the people who want to supply the outrage / anger market, the people who want to protest / shout / harass yada yada, not the ones setting the example of how to move on. The media that get's eyeballs is the outrage-porn about what the WTS did wrong last week, and how the GB may be corrupt because someone once went to a liquor store*.

If people want to help others to leave, the main focus should be on setting a good example of how to do it and how to do it with your family intact. And then providing information and community to help, but that community should only ever be a stepping stone, a temporary place to ask questions, get advice, work through the emotional stages ... and then become an ex-exJW.

And yes, I know there is some irony, because after all these years ... here I am! But I'm only here with my popcorn for the soap opera, and because someone needs to be the janitor.

* incidentally, and off topic, I always thought this makes him look pretty humble and down to earth. I mean, he's off doing his own shopping, not just sending some skivvy to do it for him. Maybe not what you'd expect of a higher-up in any organization.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Simon

I am going to have to agree with slimboyfat here. "Marko" needs to make himself known or this simply doesn't look good. Don't take this the wrong way, but it would be nice to move beyond the "trust me he's real" stage.

I agree. The longer it remains effectively just an anonymous accusation, the less believable it becomes.

Again, there can be details we aren't privy to, reasons for things to happen or not happen, but they were made public and that shouldn't happen unless someone intends to "go public". Anonymous leaks or accusations have less voracity because anyone can make them.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Simon

From page 309 of the Reluctant Apostate.... another plot twist

Nothing todo with Lloyd, but if anyone reads that you should know there is really nothing to gain from meeting with the WTS, and you don't have to in order to leave. They will pretend you have to, that it's procedure. But just because it's theirs doesn't mean it has to be yours.

If you want to "part ways", all you have to do is simply stop going. They have no authority or power over you other than what you give them.

Simply stop going, and tell them not to contact you. Congratulations, you left!

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Simon

This talk of legal action reminded me of Lloyd's opinion in the case of 'watchtower vs Faithleaks'

Notice it's always different rules for other people, not the same rules for him. He's "special". Maybe he didn't like seeing donations going elsewhere, that he figures may have come his way instead.

I expect there are lots of statements that he's made that will now be ironically funny and dripping with hypocrisy given the recent revelations. He'll now always be a caricature of what he imagines he is.

But he is right, this will follow him now, whatever he does, even if he does manage to win cases there will be people who will remind him about it so he'll spend the rest of his life playing whack-a-mole. There will be no way to escape it while he tries to continue playing his activist role, his only solution will be finding something else to do.

He just hasn't realized or accepted his inevitable fate yet.