Simon

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Posts by Simon

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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  Probably National Health Service - the public / taxpayer-funded socialist sometimes-health-care system in the UK.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  I doubt "cheating on wife with prostitute" makes up a very large percentage of disfellowshippings for 'immorality'.

  No, it's definitely further along on the "immoral" spectrum than say, cheating on your spouse with someone you know or arranged to meet in a car-park online. Both are immoral, one is worse. Are you genuinely finding these things challenging concepts or surprising? You seem determined to misunderstand what I say or add some unnecessary spin to it as though I've said something I haven't.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  you have to spend the night with one to win $1,000,000 or €1,000,000. Choose.

  Is this the Office meme where it's Pam or Jim saying "it's the same picture ..." ?
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  What he believes is way off. You get kicked out for suggesting child abuse is being covered up. Or telling the elders they are behaving in an unchristian manner and being cruel. Or saying WT's 1914 doctrine is wrong.

  You do, but I think the vast majority who are df'd are for more traditional human failings of sexual immorality. So no, I don't think I'm "way off" if you were referring to me.

  The mistake people who leave because they stopped believing is to think that everyone else who left also thought the same way.

  You only get disfellowshipped for wrong doing if it is affecting the status quo. If you want to stay in you just say the right words to the elders.

  Well, there is the "sincere repentance" thing and you know what they say about sincerity - once you can fake that, you can achieve anything. But it's complex - some people may be genuinely sorry but quite rightly unwilling to submit to intrusive questioning, others aren't sorry at all but play the game or have elder daddy to clean up their mess and get to do it again (we had some who were stuck in the revolving door of membership like that)

  Something else to remember: just because someone was kicked out of the WTS doesn't make them a good or nice person that we should want to be around. This is another mistake people make. Not everyone is like us.

  Some people are snakes and take advantage of others. There are lots of naive, overly-trusting, inexperienced people in the WTS. Some will take advantage of those people. Sometimes the people being taken advantage of will be underage with parents who are also too trusting of others in the congregation because of their propaganda. I doubt the WTS has a blanket 100% record of covering up abuse, but the ones that are rightly shown the door don't get the same publicity by people seeking to show the evils of the WTS.

  Imagine if someone was regularly cheating on their wife with "girls" and was eventually shown the door ... we wouldn't want to make a hero of such a person would we?!
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  This demonstrates my earlier point, that some believe that to reject the WTS means they have to act opposite to everything the WTS said.

  It's basic set theory - they have lots of do's and don'ts, some of them are invented but others overlap with general society. Cheating on your wife, killing people, stealing money - these are all widely recognized bad and "immoral" things, and don't make you a JW or WTS adherent. Likewise, you don't have to do any of these things to demonstrate how non-JW you are when you leave.

  You can be a good, decent, honest, loyal person when you leave the WTS. The people who claim you cannot, that it's some unreachable level of perfection (e.g. suggesting someone who doesn't visit prostitutes has "saintly mastery of their penis"), are simply bad people.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  I assume your use of immoral is "immoral by WT standards". Or do you still feel that pre-marital sex, receiving a blood transfusion, smoking, homosexuality etc are "immoral"?

  None of those things. It doesn't need to be about the WTS or even religion - I knew someone would try the old "oooh, you can't let go of the WTS thinking!" trick.

  But I think the general population views "cheating on your wife with prostitutes" to be immoral and low.
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  I had a discussion with a very passionate patreon of LE last week. They absolutely saw nothing wrong with LE and his sex life it was none of anybody's business

  Interestingly, this person's exit was due to not being able to get a study WT while df'd, and was told to get their copy online

  I would bet money they were disfellowshipped for immorality, and they "like" Lloyd because he is immoral, and it makes them feel better about their own failures.

  People forget that the vast majority of people who leave (or are kicked out of) the WTS are not leaving because of apostasy or any realization that it isn't the truth. Sometimes that comes later, but it isn't guaranteed.

  Some like that their immoral behavior was "validated" in some way, and what better than picking a morally bankrupt "hero" ...
  
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  15

  JW's everlasting life is only written in PENCIL!

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  september 2022 study watchtower p.16, par.7 .

  "the second group consists of the great crowd of other sheep.

  are their names now written in the book of life?

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  Simon

  God is so loving. After all that suffering, he still gives old Satan another chance to 'cause misery and kill as many people as possible. What a swell guy!

  It's like letting a serial killer out of prison to make sure that the victims are going to be loyal to you. I'm pretty sure that makes you a psycho monster too.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  I have trouble believing that. If you're spending enough time watching his content to convince you to leave the organization, then you already had a foot out the door. It's not as if he disguises the fact that he's a Watchtower critic and apostate. How many diehard JWs are seeing his videos in their 'suggested' feed? None.

  This. So many people believe someone "saved them" for some reason, but I still don't believe anyone can be logically convinced to leave the WTS or to even listen to any argument that it's wrong. If you are reading about how it might not be the truth then boom, you're already free even if you don't realize it yet. IMO one of the best questions to ask a JW is "what would convince you it wasn't the truth" and many can't face answering it as to even do so is to confront the possibility that it isn't true.

  It's normally some event in their own life and / or the congregation that has triggered their awakening, but it's rarely someone external that did it, other than someone dropping little hints of information. Anyone going to apostate YouTube channels to hear criticism of the WTS? Yeah, I think those people are already out.

  What people do go after is validation that they made the right choice. This is where many get stuck. They either can't bother doing the research they need to leave it all behind entirely or they miss the JW life and still want to be immersed in regular "JW talk", because they don't know how to fill their life with anything better.

  Of course for all those people there's someone willing to take their money.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  Simon

  She has a tonne of financial reasons to stay in that marriage

  I agree, I'm sure she helped spend the money and go on vacations. She's spending the fruits of the "grift" so she's part of it.

  I have zero sympathy for people who go back for more abuse, especially when they should be thinking about their kids.