why are some of the pivotal events of jesus' life as recorded in the gospels shamelessly borrowed from pagan predecessors?
the following list is not supposed to be exhaustive: immaculate conception, son of god, death and resurrection, the last supper celebrated with bread and wine, an incarnate god who dies on a cross to redeem all sins, .... h. .
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If a "pagan" source for a savior figure must be sought, I would start with Soshyant -- the eschatological savior in Zoroastrianism. Unlike all the other "savior" figures appealed to in Hellenistic mystery religions, we have in Soshyant a savior who is already embedded within an apocalyptic scheme that directly parallels that in the NT
Interesting. I will look that up because I was oblivious to this.
Thanks
Sirona
why are some of the pivotal events of jesus' life as recorded in the gospels shamelessly borrowed from pagan predecessors?
the following list is not supposed to be exhaustive: immaculate conception, son of god, death and resurrection, the last supper celebrated with bread and wine, an incarnate god who dies on a cross to redeem all sins, .... h. .
.
Moreover, the appearance of narrative themes in Christianity that parallel those in mystery religions (such as the dying-rising motif, or the Father-Son dynamic) may also represent a resurgence of traditional Hebrew/Israelite/Canaanite myths that have left their mark on the OT itself (cf. Daniel 7, which was a direct source for NT christology and which utilizes traditional Baal and El themes and imagery).
Thanks for that post. The book I'm reading emphasises the influence of pagan mythology on the OT and subsequently Christianity.
It suggests that things such as the sacrificing of a lamb at passover are directly related to customs which existed at earlier times.
For Christians, this means that they must admit that their religion is influenced by pagan faiths and astrological connections (the zodiac)
Sirona
http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/displaynode.jsp?nodeid=131596&command=displaycontent&sourcenode=124371&contentpk=20069600&folderpk=55129&pnodeid.
he broke his ankle ....
true!!!
He is a liar and he is still lying!
Oh yes, lets all lament together - POOR TREVOR
http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/displaynode.jsp?nodeid=131596&command=displaycontent&sourcenode=124371&contentpk=20069600&folderpk=55129&pnodeid.
he broke his ankle ....
true!!!
something has gotten on my nerves a bit recently.
there are numerous discussions regarding the validity of the bible which usually result in the following:.
* an exjw who has doubts about the bible concludes there is no god .
Some interesting points raised
Mae - thanks for your info re Native Americans. This is the sort of thing I'm getting at. As a pagan (with some shamanistic leanings) I certainly don't find the need to look to the bible for information about god.
Sirona
a jehovah's witness once said that the christian god of the trinity has multiple personality disorder (mpd).
this goes to show their complete lack of understanding of the trinity and how to explain it.. god does not have multiple personality disorder (mpd).
he created us in his image, having three parts.
JWs try to make the trinity sound laughable. They laugh at people who believe it. Its just a way for them to ridicule other religions.
The trinity is an acceptable concept - I don't personally hold that view but I can see why bible believers do.
Sirona
it's the great right brain vs left brain test ... do you see the dancer turning clockwise or anti-clockwise?
if clockwise, then you use more of the right side of the... brain and vice versa.
most of us would see the dancer turning anti-clockwise though you can try to focus and change the direction; see if you can do it.
No, the video is constant....it isn't rigged.
I worked it out.
Watch the leg go round the way you can see it naturally. Work out when the leg is closest to you and when it is furthest away (the foot on the floor obscures it when it is furthest away). Pause the vid when the leg is closest to you.... then imagine the leg as not being closest but furthest away.....if you change perspective this way she will appear to move in the other direction.
its an optical illusion
Sirona
something has gotten on my nerves a bit recently.
there are numerous discussions regarding the validity of the bible which usually result in the following:.
* an exjw who has doubts about the bible concludes there is no god .
Nathan
I didn't say that atheists only reject one of the numerous gods. I'm perfectly willing to accept that they reject all gods.
What I'm saying is that some people have the view that if one rejects the Christian God (based on rejection of the bible) then one immediately rejects all other gods and all other ideas and concepts of god because they never bother to consider that the bible god isn't the only one!
So many people say "the bible is rubbish therefore I'm an atheist" - at least thats what I've noticed on this board.
Sirona
why are some of the pivotal events of jesus' life as recorded in the gospels shamelessly borrowed from pagan predecessors?
the following list is not supposed to be exhaustive: immaculate conception, son of god, death and resurrection, the last supper celebrated with bread and wine, an incarnate god who dies on a cross to redeem all sins, .... h. .
.
Good thread, Hamilcarr
I'm just reading a book entitled "Origins of Christian and Pagan beliefs"
It outlines pagan roots for Christian practices such as the Eucharist. Consuming bread and wine as symbols is part of modern pagan rituals too.
Other things include the requirement for a saviour god. In Pagan mythology, often the god was symbolically slain in order to "save" mankind as part of the year's cyclical vegetation rites. His blood was outpoured for the good of mankind.
Osiris in Egyptian mythology was slain and reassembled (brought back to life by being put back together) - thereafter ascending to a state wherein he met those who died (their underworld was similar in idea to our heaven in reference to it being the place where the dead go to).
The winter solstice (around end of december) often heralded the "birth" of the Sun God because the people's observed the shortest day (sun at his weakest) and then the subsequent longer days (ie. he was reborn) so this is why many gods prior to Jesus were said to have been born around this time.
At around 3000BC, the sun would rise in the constellation of Virgo at the time of the winter solstice - hence "virgin birth" of these gods. Despite some of them not being exactly the same myth (a woman impregnated by god) they still had the commonality of not being "natural human" births - but rather something caused by God in which a mortal woman didn't participate in.
There is much, much more....
Sirona
something has gotten on my nerves a bit recently.
there are numerous discussions regarding the validity of the bible which usually result in the following:.
* an exjw who has doubts about the bible concludes there is no god .
Something has gotten on my nerves a bit recently. There are numerous discussions regarding the validity of the bible which usually result in the following:
* An ExJW who has doubts about the bible concludes there is no god
* An atheist points out the bible inconsistencies and as a result says its ridiculous to believe in a god.
* A Christian who sees value in the bible asserts that the bible god is GOD (and none other)
What bugs me is that everyone seems to ignore the fact that there are so many religions in the world who don't acknowledge the bible at all and the validity of the bible has NO bearing whatsoever on the question of whether a Deity or Deities exist.
Too many "god doesn't exist" threads centre on the Christian view of God.
Not all religions think God is some old man in the sky who judges....some think god is a woman LOL (being flippant here but you know what I'm getting at).
World" Religions:There are many, long established, major world religions, each with over three million followers. We have shown the five largest North American religions in bold:
Christian groups, denominations and families (Amish to The Way)
Vodun (Voodoo)
1 Neopagan Religious Faiths
Neopagan faiths
are modern-day reconstructions of ancient Pagan religions from various countries and eras. They experience a high but diminishing level of discrimination and persecution in North America. They were once rarely practiced in public for reasons of safety. This is rapidly changing for the better.
Asatru (Norse Paganism) * Druidism Goddess Worship Witchcraft Notes:
Many followers of Asatru regard themselves as "Heathens" rather than "Neopagans." Many followers of these religions refer to themselves as "Pagans." We use the term "Neopagan" because it is less ambiguous. "Pagan" has a variety of unrelated meanings.
Other organized Religions
These are smaller religions, with a well defined belief in deity, humanity and the rest of the universe. Of the many hundreds of faith groups in the world, we have chosen these because of their historical significance, or because of the massive amount of misinformation that has been spread about them in North America:
So before people say "God is obviously a sadistic b**tard" based on the Bible god, think again!
Sirona
