Skipper,
Great post! I like your points about fear. Also I think that its true that the JW religion induces a sort of slow suicide.
Its good to be out!!
Sirona
Posts by Sirona
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9Y R Witnesses so LIFE NEGATIVE?
by Mindchild inthis is not a fluff post.... hey friends...i got all nostalgic today and for some reason decided to prepare the ultimate talk that i wished i could have given at one of the meetings back yonder when i was a dumb dub.
so, the next best thing is to share it here with you cool folks, and just maybe you might find something here of value.... why are the witnesses so life negative?.
perhaps it comes as a surprise to you that i say that the society has denied life, destroyed life; they have been antagonistic to life, and their god jehovah is against life.
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Sirona
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YoYo: proof?
by cynicus inyoyo says:.
i wanted to prove to myself that what the watchtower says about apostates is true.. now what a refreshing idea!
am i correct in assuming that you did this also for other topics the watchtower has opinions on?.
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Sirona
Yoyo,
I have been reading this thread hoping to know whether the watchtower are right on this point or not. Its not something I personally have researched, so I have been interested in the discussion.
At the outset, I wondered how you would defend the watchtower belief. You made some good points re the working out of the date 539bc etc.
However, I was really disappointed by your last retort which answers none of the points made by alanf. Throughout this thread, Alanf has provided about double the amount of text and to my mind double the amount of argument than you have. He has gone into great detail, especially in the last post about his theory re Daniel/Chronicles. Cynicus has also asked pertinent questions of you that you seem to brush off.
Your refusal to stick with the argument has me worried about whether you actually know that the watchtower is right or not?
Please answer, because I am honestly listening to both sides and would like to form a conclusion. Of course, I can research myself, yet since you are already involved in this debate I'd like to see your answers rather than just short comments.
Sirona
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22
I did it.... :(
by flower ini didnt mean to but it just came out and before i knew it i was crying and arguing with her.
well not really arguing but getting excited.
she got mad and said 'so what are you saying that you dont think this is the truth?
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Sirona
Wow Flower. The dec 15 2001? I live with a JW mum married to my unbelieving step-dad. I wondered why this christmas she sort of got more involved than before!!!!!! Heres me thinking she's going milder! She had to get the go ahead from the borg after all. Sad.
Thanks for that info.
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if 1000 years =1 day to God the:
by rekless injesus only was away from god for 33 minutes.. i would let my children suffer like jesus if i knew they would be with me for the rest of eternity.
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Sirona
Rekless,
So you are actually saying that it was OK for Jesus to come because his suffering was only 33mins to God?
That is the worst christian argument I ever heard. So our suffering (which God conveniently made very long) doesnt matter?
Sirona
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66
Who do you love now?????
by Sky ini was brand new when this post was up.. now i wanna know who everyone loves, so i kow who you're talking about!.
kisses!.
sky
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Sirona
Yeru, last time you named me...
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22
I did it.... :(
by flower ini didnt mean to but it just came out and before i knew it i was crying and arguing with her.
well not really arguing but getting excited.
she got mad and said 'so what are you saying that you dont think this is the truth?
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Sirona
About your comment re: the devil influencing Ray Franz and boards like this.... well
If you can read things in the watchtower that show that they are grossly decieving people (and you can) - its there in black and white, printed by the society, then its not the devil thats pointing that out to you. If the society are guilty of twisting things to fit their doctrine, changing their minds on very important issues, letting people die because of their 'rules' (I wonder how many people have died before they allowed blood "fractions"?), and it is NOT anyone elses fault that the society have done this, it is THEIR FAULT. Not the devil, but them.
On boards like this, we point out our research on the society. By far the majority of it is just us simply quoting their literature. Any organisation that can be proved false by just quoting their own literature is in serious trouble! Then, we give our own experiences. There are JWs on here who disagree and give their arguments too. As far as being influenced by the devil, well if we were saying things that we had no proof for but you believed them, then maybe I'd agree. But its all down in black and white in the society's literature.
In my opinion, the witnesses advocate a good way of life in a small way, but they ruin all of that with the rest of the crap they come out with. If they didnt make up lots of rules, didnt do mind-control, didnt HARM people with their advice, but just stuck to the words of Jesus I figure they'd be OK!
I think that when you are coming out you sort of say "well look at how they preach and live moral lives" and you wonder if you're doing the right thing in leaving. The thing is, dont ignore all the other things they do that are very harmful ("they" are the society, not individuals).
Sirona
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Do I convert for him????
by butalbee ini am going totally crazy without him in my life.
i miss talking to him for hours on the phone, i miss spending time with him, i miss being a part of his life.
it was my decision to end things, and i know he still wants to be with me, but i am still torn to pieces.
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Sirona
My advice about getting him out:
First of all, dont tell him about this site, at least not yet. As soon as he thinks you are in touch with "apostates" he may actually be afraid to talk to you in depth about things. I experienced this response from JWs - they actually fear you are influenced by Satan when you talk to those who oppose JWs.
If I was you, I would openly and honestly express to him your concerns about the religion. Sort of like "I think JW is good, but I have these doubts...." Then you could mention some well thought out points that will help him to raise the same questions in his mind.
E.g. I have had some success with JWs by telling them that I dont understand why the society has so many rules which are not directly referred to in the bible. Why can we not say "cheers"? Why are there rules about *you must* attend 5 meetings a week (or you are considered weak)? Why can women not wear trousers at the hall? etc. I tell them that I think that JWs should preach the bible, but preach *principles* rather than *rules*. Surely if we are good hearted we will naturally do the right thing, without having to have strict "ways to live" pointed out to us by the governing body. It harms people when it comes to things like organ transplants (in the 1950s when people died because the society said organ transplants were cannibalism). It harms families if there is an attitude of "us and them" like in the JWs.
OK so Im making my points here, but Im sure you have your own points that are not so confrontational, but will get him thinking about whether the society should be controlling peoples lives so much. JWs that I have spoken to tend to agree that maybe the society should be careful what they print, and maybe just teaching the principles of scripture would be a good idea. In this sense, they are finally learning independent thought, and realising that the society are not so infallible as they think.
Be honest with him about your feelings regarding the JWs. In relationships, honest communication is important, right?
Sirona
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Do I convert for him????
by butalbee ini am going totally crazy without him in my life.
i miss talking to him for hours on the phone, i miss spending time with him, i miss being a part of his life.
it was my decision to end things, and i know he still wants to be with me, but i am still torn to pieces.
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Sirona
Dont convert.
If he loves you, he has fallen in love with you the NON-witness. The problem with the JWs is that they take away your freedom to be you. Dont ever, ever, let anyone or any group make you into something you are not.
Im a great believer that if someone is meant to be in your life, they will be. If you truly feel a deep bond with this man, then no religion will stop you being together. However, if he did choose the religion over you, you can be reassured that you dont want a man who would do that! He should love you for who you are, and if he doesnt like it, then say goodbye to him. You want a man who will love you for YOU, not because you do what he wants.
Sirona
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Response from the Society
by Sirona ini posted a while back with a copy of the letter that i sent to the society.
its at : http://www.geocities.com/lovelight75/socletter.htm.
here is the response.
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Sirona
Bluesapphire,
Yeah, great point. Its such a cop out for them to say "look who is doing the preaching" etc. because if we really look at things then we can point to many organisations around the world who are doing more loving things than the JWs.
Their whole argument falls over when we consider the bible canon in the 4th century! Presumably we are to trust that the apostates kept the right writings and got rid of the wrong ones? yet we dont trust them about the gods name thing.
mmmm
Sirona
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Response from the Society
by Sirona ini posted a while back with a copy of the letter that i sent to the society.
its at : http://www.geocities.com/lovelight75/socletter.htm.
here is the response.
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Sirona
Hi DIM
Good points! I didnt think of that! It wasnt another edition was it?
They are very, very sneaky about the Gods Name thing. They always always state that the OT has Gods name. All those pictures of the tetragrammaton are ALL from the Old Testament. Then they use that to justify it being in the NT.
Sneaky.
Sirona