cognisonance

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Posts by cognisonance

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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  cognisonance

  perhaps you can point me to examples of soft, fluffy Marxist countries which are thriving in the fields of human rights and economics ...

  Perhaps you can point me to an example of a Marxist country? I haven't seen one.

  Stalin's totalitarian regime was an extension of Leninism, which in turn was an adaptation from Marx (of course Stalin's Marxism-Leninism used Marxist's ideas as propaganda to justify his totalitarian rule as the means to achieve socialism). Specifically, Marx himself did not advocate for a dictatorship by totalitarian former working class people (while the real working-class had no say), Rather during the transition between capitalism to communism the whole working-class would participate in a government that resembles something like a direct democracy (far from what we think of as dictatorship, but it would result in the oppression of the capitalists). He called this idea the "dictatorship of the proletariats". Of course, this is not what happened in Russia when Stalin self-imposed a single party police state, so you can't say Russia is an example of a Marxist country. Same goes for North Korea and China.

  Now I'm not saying the Marx is right in all of his ideas (neither am I fully aware of all of them -- this subject gets really complex if you start digging into it and his writing style is not easy to read). Additionally, there are other adaptations of Marxism other than the Marxism-Lennism flavor (e.g. Libertarian Marxism). And since most people equate Marxism with Socialism, I should point out that socialism does not equate to marxism either (even though here in the US most people equate Marx, Socialism, Communism, and central planning, as all one and the same). Thus, I also recommend looking into Libertarian Socialism and Participatory Economics for other perspectives.

  Lastly, according to Chomsky, it was not just the capitalist countries that were opposed to socialism but also the Soviet State as well. The result is that we are left with a situation where many people view socialism as a bad thing and this prevents us from eventually achieving "a more decent society and a liveable world in the West" and elsewhere.
  
  In short, I don't think this is a simple black and white thing where we can say capitalism == good and socialism == bad.
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  cognisonance

  Why does Marxism in practice always result in totalitarianism?

  Well... centrally-planned, hierarchical forms of socialism certainly has. Unfortunately, no country has attempted to implement a horizontal, decentralized one. For example I'm talking about concepts like libertarian socialism, participatory economics, and others.

  However, I'm aware of one microcosm with it's roots in 1960s era Marxism that has survived to this day where there is no central planning, and no authoritarian ruler, The Rainbow Family:

  "The Rainbow example threatens governments. It shows that people can live without rulers, without yielding their voices to representatives. It demonstrates that people can be responsible for themselves and maintain peace without coercion or force, without police. It is a model of a true participatory democracy, 'Government by the People.' The European Gatherings are bringing people of different ethnic and national backgrounds together to discuss their common future; to dream of a world without armies or wars. The Rainbow Family is the antithesis of a police state. It challenges all entities that govern by fear instead of cooperation. For them, the Rainbow Family provides the 'threat of a good example,' one others might follow (Chomsky 1987)."

  This does not mean I'm advocating we all gather in the woods as utopian hippies. I'm just trying to point out that your stated cause and effect would take only one example to disprove (of course this is not the counter example as they aren't a country and the analogy begins to break down). What I'm trying to say is that Totalitarianism ≠ Socialism no matter how much you are trying to equate the two.
  
  

  --

  Works Cited:
  

  Niman, Michael I. “People of the Rainbow: a Nomadic Utopia.” People of the Rainbow: a Nomadic Utopia, University of Tennessee Press, Knoxville, 1997, p. 214.
  
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  94

  Karl Marx Genius Of The Modern World

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he was all for getting rid of religions and their delusions for the betterment of mankind.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mydmc1wio8.

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  cognisonance

  LoveUniHateExams

  It has murdered tens of millions of its citizens and all its proponents can say in its defense is that we haven't seen "true" communism yet - a 'No True Scotsman' fallacy of epic proportions!

  The proponents of many of Marx's ideas are NOT trying to defend totalitarian communism. There is no "No True Scotsman" fallacy here. It seems you and cofty are making a strawman argument here. I haven't read all of Marx's work, far from it, but from what I have read I see nowhere where he advocates for totalitarianism. If he does I'd like to know (please show me).
  
  

  cofty
  Supporting Marxism is the moral equivalent of promoting German National Socialism.

  Woah Cofty, be careful not to make the false cause fallacy here. What you are doing is equivalent to a creationist asserting that supporting darwinism is the moral equivalent of promoting the nazi eugenics program.

  From my perspective, the main work I've read of Marx directly is Wage Labour and Capital. I don't see much in that work to complain about (or anything at all to equate to nazism!). Some of the main arguments he makes that stand out to me include:

  1. Laborers are like slaves. A slave though has it much worse of course. A slave's whole life is a commodity that can be sold and owned. A free laborer is like a slave in that he sells off himself in fractions (a day's shift) to the capitalist. Life for him starts when he gets off work. Like the slave, his life is not his own while he is working.
     
  2. What a laborer gets paid in wages is the value of his labor-power (the cost of training and education of the workers for a specific task, as well as their replacement when they can no longer work). Labor-power is a commodity (like raw materials) that is purchased by the capitalist. The laborer doesn't receive a share in the product being produced. The profits from the production go to the capitalist. Since the production couldn't have happened without the laborer, and the product wasn't sold merely at cost, the value of the laborer's productivity is greater than the value of his labor-power. In essence, this surplus value is transferred form the laborer to the capitalist by nature of the relationship between the two. The laborer class has no choice but to sell themselves to the capitalist class in order to survive. As more of the surplus is transferred from workers to the capitalists, the more power the capitalists have, and the worse off are the workers. This is the crux of the unfairness of capitalism.
  3. Capitalism is ultimately unstable in the long run. The only way to avoid collapse requires perpetual growth and ever increasing productivity. To Marx, eventually this is unsustainable.
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  36

  Jupiter protects the earth... another example of intellectual dishonesty and an argument against design

  by cognisonance in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm taking a university astronomy course, and i must say it's really fun to read about this field.

  anyway, i remember the jws used to use jupiter (and probably still do) as an example for how unique and special our solar system is (and thus designed) -- namely, that jupiter protects the earth from astroids, comets, and meteors.

  convincing if one doesn't know any better, especially circa 1994 when jupiter stepped in front of a comet for us... but this isn't the full story!

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  cognisonance

  Waton, I don't understand why Bode's predictions somehow matter, whether they constituted coincidence or law. And citing the Watchtower about 10 being a symbol of earthly perfection... are you still a JW or into numerology?
  
  

  it all is made possible by the original setup, supply of Energy, matter, laws.

  To that I'll defer to Carl Sagan: https://youtu.be/SYlIYnKmGV4
  
  
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  40

  we have a laid off bethelite with an engineering degree!

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this guy have been at bethel for 25 years when he could have been making 75-100 thousand a year as an engineer.

  so they kick him to the curb so they don't have to house him and his wife anymore.

  they run into a problem at warwick and they ask him to come back for 3 weeks.

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  cognisonance

  none of this really requires critical thinking. BOC

  I reconsidered what you stated above and I must agree with you in part, it is no joke, pure science and math courses do not a well rounded individual make.

  But what curriculum is pure math and science? I thought all regionally accredited universities and colleges have a core liberal arts education to make a person well rounded. Generally the kind of courses taken during the first 2 years. These courses offer a better opportunity to develop critical thinking than in STEM courses.
  
  However, I emphasize opportunity, because form my experience most students view these as "fluff" courses that pad out degree requirements and have "nothing" to do with why they are going to school (job training instead of also learning and learning how to learn/think). As a result they often don't take full advantage of these courses and just do the minimum to get their target grade. Since work loads are usually high, many students won't bother thinking that deeply about challenging ideas. This isn't helped by most professors not stressing the critical thinking aspect as far as they could.
  
  That said, even in science classes, there have been cases where the material encourages critical thinking. Or maybe I'm just able to notice it better than the students 10+ years younger than me.
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  36

  Jupiter protects the earth... another example of intellectual dishonesty and an argument against design

  by cognisonance in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm taking a university astronomy course, and i must say it's really fun to read about this field.

  anyway, i remember the jws used to use jupiter (and probably still do) as an example for how unique and special our solar system is (and thus designed) -- namely, that jupiter protects the earth from astroids, comets, and meteors.

  convincing if one doesn't know any better, especially circa 1994 when jupiter stepped in front of a comet for us... but this isn't the full story!

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  cognisonance

  Waton, I'm not sure why you think the controversial Titus-Bode rule somehow proves creation. Also, it also doesn't always hold true like you assert:

  

  Further, your argument is akin to pointing out that all the planets rotate in an orderly fashion on an ecliptic plane in the same direction of the sun, and then saying that since this pattern is unlikely to have happened randomly there must have been a reason for it. You'd probably then reason that this requires a creator. Science however has a pretty good evidence-based explanation that doesn't necessitate bringing a divine agent into the picture (condensation theory).
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  21

  WT Library being edited

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i thought that wt would have started doing this, but i have not noticed any posts before.. can anyone confirm (post is from fb)?.

  so i have been looking up these different articles to read for myself...one problem.the last time we got a disc was 2015 and i used my mil's disc to down load it to my computer.

  they did a update to it last year over the internet, the program updated it's self.

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  cognisonance

  Errata corrections are sometimes documented. The "glue-in sheet" also happened with the Revelation book as I remember. However, changing and removing content without documenting this publicly is very different from how normal publishing works. Most publishers make a point to show what was changed, updated, or corrected (not try to hide it whenever they can).
  
  Additionally, why is there a need for any errata-like corrections if the writings come from men that are led by the spirit of a perfect god? Seems god choose obtuse nincompoops to communicate with (which then seems to be a contradiction of god being perfect [otherwise he'd have chosen better], these men being spirt-led, or god existing at all).
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  36

  Jupiter protects the earth... another example of intellectual dishonesty and an argument against design

  by cognisonance in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm taking a university astronomy course, and i must say it's really fun to read about this field.

  anyway, i remember the jws used to use jupiter (and probably still do) as an example for how unique and special our solar system is (and thus designed) -- namely, that jupiter protects the earth from astroids, comets, and meteors.

  convincing if one doesn't know any better, especially circa 1994 when jupiter stepped in front of a comet for us... but this isn't the full story!

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  cognisonance

  Wake Me Up, Andromeda merging with the Milky Way is unlikely to affect our Solar System (or earth) in a negative way. The space between stars in these galaxies is vast. A collision really would just move the location of our star, or even expel it (and the solar system) out into space, but it should remain intact nonetheless.

  Now about a billion years after our galaxies begin to merge the sun will run out of fuel which won't be good for the earth at all!
• 
  36

  Jupiter protects the earth... another example of intellectual dishonesty and an argument against design

  by cognisonance in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm taking a university astronomy course, and i must say it's really fun to read about this field.

  anyway, i remember the jws used to use jupiter (and probably still do) as an example for how unique and special our solar system is (and thus designed) -- namely, that jupiter protects the earth from astroids, comets, and meteors.

  convincing if one doesn't know any better, especially circa 1994 when jupiter stepped in front of a comet for us... but this isn't the full story!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cognisonance

  I'm taking a university Astronomy course, and I must say it's really fun to read about this field.

  Anyway, I remember the JWs used to use Jupiter (and probably still do) as an example for how unique and special our solar system is (and thus designed) -- namely, that Jupiter protects the earth from astroids, comets, and meteors. Convincing if one doesn't know any better, especially circa 1994 when Jupiter stepped in front of a comet for us... but this isn't the full story! For example, Deborah Byrd on the astronomy website EarthSky mentions:

  But Jupiter creates both good and bad conditions for earthly life. Consider that its powerful gravity prevented space rocks orbiting near it from coalescing into a planet, and that’s why our solar system today has an asteroid belt, consisting of hundreds of thousands of small flying chunks of debris.

  Today, Jupiter’s gravity continues to affect the asteroids – only now it nudges some asteroids toward the sun, where they have the possibility of colliding with Earth.

  So Jupiter sometimes use it's gravitational pull as a sling shot aiming rocks towards earth! That doesn't sound like particularly good design now does it? If the solar system was created, then wouldn't a perfect god have seen to it that his invader defense system doesn't sometimes cause the very problem it was "meant" to protect against?
  
  Works Cited:
  
  Byrd, Deborah. “Is It True That Jupiter Protects Earth?” EarthSky, EarthSky, 25 Nov. 2015, earthsky.org/space/is-it-true-that-jupiter-protects-earth. Accessed 10 July 2017.
  
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  21

  WT Library being edited

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i thought that wt would have started doing this, but i have not noticed any posts before.. can anyone confirm (post is from fb)?.

  so i have been looking up these different articles to read for myself...one problem.the last time we got a disc was 2015 and i used my mil's disc to down load it to my computer.

  they did a update to it last year over the internet, the program updated it's self.

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  cognisonance

  If true, why doesn't this sound of alarm bells to those that believe?