uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
You all have said plenty already. All I will say is, if he's going to continue to cover documents and topics about CSA, wouldn't you rather there be someone there to bring a sensitivity to the topic? To bring a lived experience to the topic?
In absolutely now way that should be Lloyd given his stance on using sex workers. The two topics are polar opposite and THAT is the issue. If he continues to cover CSA then it weakens that message when a guy who uses hookers says it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh9w8zmgli0.
( starts at the 21:00 minute mark ) governing body member jeffrey winder reveals the real reason for the failed doctrines throughout the watchtower's 150 year history.
he claims that the governing body are neither inspired or infallible.. the governing body do not need to apologize for getting doctrines wrong.. the governing body ''do their best with what they have and what they understand at the time.''.
I'm happy with the GB's explanation on this.
Just don't ever advise and expect people to listen and obey even if what they say is "strange". Let them say their piece and let the listener decide.
You can't say on one hand we are not inspired or infallible yet demand exclusive total obedience on the other.
As you know....cults do that.
to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..
The WT say Jehoover can see all futures but chooses what to see. Cop out.
throughout watchtower history dates have been a problem.
the usual solution for failed prophetic dates has been to kick the can down the road.
this needs to be done with 1914. the generation that will never pass away is now 110 years old and therefore is past its useful life span.
Pure cognitive bias.
So obvious right? Hilarious but sad for scholar.
throughout watchtower history dates have been a problem.
the usual solution for failed prophetic dates has been to kick the can down the road.
this needs to be done with 1914. the generation that will never pass away is now 110 years old and therefore is past its useful life span.
The simplest way to prove Jerusalem fell in 587BC is using Ptolemys Canon. You can easily find it on the internet. Ptolemys Canon is merely a list of eclipses and astronomical observations, and the date they occurred, going back to around 750BC. The concept of "BC" didn’t exist back then so the date instead is made up of the name of the king and the number of years the king has been on the throne.
Because astronomers can calculate when eclipses should have occurred, even as far back as 750BC, astronomers have determined that Ptolomys Canon is completely accurate. Because Ptolemys Canon lists kings and when they came to the throne, we know that Nebuchadnezzar (who is specifically named in Ptolemys Canon) came to the throne in 605BC.
There is also now Archelogical evidence it was 587/586 as nmentioned in "The History of the Benjamin Region under Babylonian Rule" and "Jerusalem between Two Periods of Greatness: The Size and Status of the City in the Babylonian, Persian and Early Hellenistic Periods".
Also, why does the bible have to be correct on 70 years? Can't take that as fact when it has been proven Daniel was written around 160BC, and contains historical errors. The Jews don’t include Daniel as one of the prophets, but the book is included in the "Ketuvim" (ie the fiction section of the Hebrew Scriptures).
There is therefore plenty proof it is 587/586 but there is none for 607. The only proof used is the bible, which cannot be trusted.
More proof?
Jerusalem was under Babylonian siege for 2 years under the rule of King Nebuchadnezzar.
Jeremiah 52:4, 5* - "4 In the ninth year of Zed·e·kiʹah’s reign, in the tenth month, on the tenth day of the month, King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon came with all his army against Jerusalem. They camped against it and built a siege wall all around it. 5 And the city was under siege until the 11th year of King Zed·e·kiʹah."
The Bible states that Jerusalem was destroyed in the 19th year of King Nebuchadnezzar’s reign as king.
Jeremiah 52:12-14* - "12 In the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, that is, in the 19th year of King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar the king of Babylon, Neb·uʹzar·adʹan the chief of the guard, who was an attendant of the king of Babylon, came into Jerusalem. 13 He burned down the house of Jehovah, the king’s house, and all the houses of Jerusalem; he also burned down every large house. 14 And the walls surrounding Jerusalem were pulled down by the entire Chal·deʹan army that was with the chief of the guard."
Babylonians kept extremely detailed historical records of everything from receipts to the positions of the stars and large events in the nation’s history. By extracting data from the abundant number of cuneiform tablets created by the Babylonians, and using extremely accurate mathematical and digital models that track the movement of the planets and stars in the location where the records were written, it is possible to establish the date that King Nebuchadnezzar took the throne of Babylon, which was sometime between 605-606 B.C.E.
References:
James G. Macqueen, Babylon (1964)
The Cambridge Ancient History (12 vols., 1923-1939)
D. J. Wiseman, Chronicles of Chaldaean Kings (1956)
Thus, according to historical record as well as the Bible, it is indisputable that Nebuchadnezzar’s siege of Jerusalem began in his 17th year of ruling as King of Babylon, or 588-589 B.C.E. Two years later, the Babylonians breached the walls and destroyed Jerusalem and took some of the Jews captive. This happened in Nebuchadnezzar’s 19th year as king, or 586-587 B.C.E.
The Organization blatantly disregard archaeologically and historically verified fact and continue to state that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E., a full 1-2 years before Nebuchadnezzar was reigning as King of Babylon. Although prior to 605-606 B.C.E. Nebuchadnezzar was the commander of the Babylonian army, Jeremiah 52:4 states that Nebuchadnezzar was already King of Babylon and later at Jeremiah 52:12 states that Nebuchadnezzar had been ruling for 17-19 years by the time these events took place.
throughout watchtower history dates have been a problem.
the usual solution for failed prophetic dates has been to kick the can down the road.
this needs to be done with 1914. the generation that will never pass away is now 110 years old and therefore is past its useful life span.
The controversy over 587 and 607 disappears because 1914 will be based solely on the prophecies of Jesus and not with a 7-time
But becomes far more generic as the prophecies of Jesus were applied to date by believers from the 1700's onwards through 1800's and 1900's. How would they prove god picked the F&S in 1919?
Their argument they were selected becomes far weaker.
throughout watchtower history dates have been a problem.
the usual solution for failed prophetic dates has been to kick the can down the road.
this needs to be done with 1914. the generation that will never pass away is now 110 years old and therefore is past its useful life span.
They are stuck with 1914, because : No 1914 = No 1919 Choosing by Jesus = Today's G.B are self-appointed Charlatans.
Exactly this, change 1914...1919 fails and ends the self-appointed F&S over the domestics crap.
They can't change 1914 without changing how the big J chose them.
They are stuck.
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
But on a positive note he has done a lot of good for the ex JW community. There have been many videos over the years that have made me and others think. In fact he has put two and two together with lots of previous knowledge that has been very very powerful in proving that this is a man made organisation.
And just think how a sex abuse survivor feels who saw him fight for their cause against the WT only to for him to engage in sex worker usage in a country and industry where abuse is common...and for him to not see anything wrong with it.
He'd destroyed his work by him taking part in two activities that are polar opposite. ExJW survivors who supported him are disgusted ad betrayed by him.
does anyone have a list of all the new light or gb updates in order?
is there a post here that lists all the changes in the organization?
i left about 1996 and i haven't kept up, but it seems like a completely different organization than it was when i was in it.
You are out and a mass amount has changed, don't worry about it...you are still right to get out. Nothing ever will get you back in,
The changes since 2012 since I left have been astonishing.
are the governing body really in charge or are they just a figurehead with the real power being behind the curtain .
These topics are easily answered in Don Cameron's excellent book "Captives of a Concept"
It details how the GB are simply trapped in believing they are chosen.
It's a wonderful book.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Captives-Concept-Anatomy-Illusion-Cameron/dp/1411622103
