Posts by notsurewheretogo

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

notsurewheretogo

I appreciate the effort here from Jethro, this may be hard to follow for some but indeed important to show the nonsense of 607.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

Nah dude I've been here for years and POMO!

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

But the contradiction is they told us we don’t have to wish these ones would die beforehand but the same time they indicated it would be better for them to die before?

Yes because they can react to the Great Tribulation and still pass through, just no need to have to hope family die before Armageddon.

14 At times, we hear someone say, “It would almost be better if my relative dies before the great tribulation begins so that there is hope for his resurrection.” There are surely kind motives behind such expressions. But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die.

Its all about those who are familiar with the message. That's your context here.

And thus I am correct to say this is a contradiction to telling JWs not to wish their unbelieving loved ones die beforehand because they have the same chance no matter when they die.

Not quite as they still have to respond favourably during the Great Tribulation to have that chance. And that seems a harder thing to do that die before Armageddon?

we should agree that the GB are making it up as they along and we have caught them out in an obvious contradiction.

Indeed and that is why I left 12 years but the stuff they have been producing recently, like this change, is just batshit crazy for sure.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

The article states:

But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die. Jehovah is the perfect Judge—he renders just and righteous decisions.

All it is saying is your unbelieving family member doesn't need to die BEFORE Armageddon to still have a chance to get through. It doesn't matter WHEN they die in context of Armageddon because Jehovah will judge them perfectly depending on how they react to the Great Tribulation.

If they respond during the Great Tribulation then they may pass through and thus do not need to die before Armageddon to have that chance to be in the paradise.

Old light was for non JW's there was one route to paradise....die before Armageddon...now there are two routes to paradise for unbelievers...die before Armageddon OR respond during the Great Tribulation and be judged worthy.

Thus the conclusion is these types of people their eternal future doesn't reside on having to die before Armageddon.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

Do you agree that this is contradictory? On the one hand it sounds like it is better for unbelievers to die before Armageddon than to be alive during.

Well that is true though to some degree. If an unbeliever dies before Armageddon they have a 100% chance of coming back unless an opposer or really bad like Hitler which is unlikely they are that bad.

But if Armageddon comes and they are still alive but a non JW they have to rely on reacting to the events of the Great Tribulation, turn to Jehovah and follow him and hope he judges them worthy. Which of the two routes to paradise is easier? Probably dying before Armageddon starts.

Thus it will be easier if they died but now the new light is that is not the only chance for them to pass through.

Hence WHEN they die is not the only route for these ones to survive Armageddon.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

So someone with unbelieving loved ones, they are good people but for whatever reason don’t ever want to become JWs. THEY DO NOT RESPOND during the Great Tribulation,.

They are judged and executed at Armageddon as per the article and like they have always taught.

You still think if they died before Armageddon they would have a chance at the 1000 yr reign but they would be slaughtered by Jeh all because the time they died was inconvenient?

I don't know where you are getting this from as it is not what I say.

If the unbeliever died before Armageddon they come back in the paradise. Old light was they are dead at Armageddon if they were still alive when it starts new light is they have a chance to pass through Armageddon if they respond favorably to the events of the Great Tribulation.

The new light is simply NOT JUST JW's may survive Armageddon as that is old light, now JW's AND some who respond to the Great Tribulation may pass through.

Nothing more than that. I'm not saying anything more than that as that is simply what the article says.

But my points are also clear that the new light clearly says it makes no difference the time someone dies to if they get a shot at the 1000yr reign.

This is correct if they die normally, but if they die at being judged and executed by Jehovah they are dead forever. Being executed at Armageddon means no second chance, that has not changed ever.

The no difference to when someone dies is there chance to get into paradise. Old light was a non believer HAD to die before Armageddon to get into paradise. Now there is two chances! Die before Armageddon OR respond favorably to the Great Tribulation.

Hence why WHEN they die is not the only route into paradise for those who have heard the message and chose not to be a JW when the Great Tribulation starts. Old light was JW's just hoped their family members who were not JWs died so they would get a resurrection...now they don't need to hope they die before Armageddon but simply respond to the events of the Great Tribulation.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

MikeJW your whole point falls down with this one paragraph:

11. On what basis will people be judged at Armageddon?
11 We do know several things about future events. For example, we know that at Armageddon, people will be dealt with on the basis of how they have treated Christ’s brothers. (Matt. 25:40) Those judged as sheep will have shown their support for the anointed and for Christ. We also know that some of Christ’s brothers will still be on earth after the great tribulation starts and will not be taken to heaven until shortly before the outbreak of Armageddon. As long as the brothers of Christ are still on earth, it is possible that honesthearted individuals will have the opportunity to support them and the work they are doing. (Matt. 25:31, 32; Rev. 12:17) Why are those facts significant?

Look at the question and the answer. Jehovah will judge and execute those at Armageddon if they have not responded to the preaching. Billions dead.

The next paragraph shows the change:

12 Even after the great tribulation starts, it is possible that some who see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event.

THUS people, not JW's could survive by reacting to the Great Tribulation...and be saved.

The article is nothing more than that.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

Can any other posters help MikeJW here? As he clearly doesn't grasp the article or my explanation of it.

Just simply read the article.

9 In his Word, Jehovah has revealed to us some of the things he will do. For example, the Bible tells us that Jehovah will bring back to life “unrighteous” people who have not had the opportunity to respond to the good news and change their ways. (Acts 24:15; Luke 23:42, 43) That raises other important questions.

10. What other questions arise?

10 Will all who die during the events of the great tribulation be destroyed forever with no hope of a resurrection? The Scriptures make it clear that outright opposers whom Jehovah and his forces will destroy at Armageddon will not be resurrected. (2 Thess. 1:6-10) But what about others, for example, who may die from natural causes, from accidents, or at the hand of other humans? (Eccl. 9:11; Zech. 14:13) Could some of these people be among the “unrighteous” who will be resurrected in the new world? We simply do not know.

WHAT WE DO KNOW

11. On what basis will people be judged at Armageddon?

11 We do know several things about future events. For example, we know that at Armageddon, people will be dealt with on the basis of how they have treated Christ’s brothers. (Matt. 25:40) Those judged as sheep will have shown their support for the anointed and for Christ. We also know that some of Christ’s brothers will still be on earth after the great tribulation starts and will not be taken to heaven until shortly before the outbreak of Armageddon. As long as the brothers of Christ are still on earth, it is possible that honesthearted individuals will have the opportunity to support them and the work they are doing. (Matt. 25:31, 32; Rev. 12:17) Why are those facts significant?

12-13. How might some react after seeing the destruction of “Babylon the Great”? (See also pictures.)

12 Even after the great tribulation starts, it is possible that some who see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event. Might some who see these events have a change of heart?—Rev. 17:5; Ezek. 33:33.

13 Such an outcome would be similar to what occurred in Egypt in Moses’ day. Recall that “a vast mixed company” joined Israel in the Exodus. Some of these individuals may have started to develop faith when they saw that Moses’ warnings about the Ten Plagues came true. (Ex. 12:38) If a similar development should occur following the destruction of Babylon the Great, would we be disappointed that people were able to join us shortly before the end comes? Of course not! We want to reflect the personality of our heavenly Father, “a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth.” b—Ex. 34:6.

Collage: 1. A young woman watches a TV news report about the shutdown of religious activities. She holds a photo and reflects on her life when she served Jehovah with her parents. 2. Later, she visits her parents’ home, and they receive her warmly. Outside the house, there is a disturbance on the street.

Some who will see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event (See paragraphs 12-13) d

14-15. Does a person’s eternal future depend on when he happens to die or where he happens to live? Explain. (Psalm 33:4, 5)

14 At times, we hear someone say, “It would almost be better if my relative dies before the great tribulation begins so that there is hope for his resurrection.” There are surely kind motives behind such expressions. But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die. Jehovah is the perfect Judge—he renders just and righteous decisions. (Read Psalm 33:4, 5.) We can be confident that “the Judge of all the earth” will do what is right.—Gen. 18:25.

15 It is also reasonable to conclude that a person’s eternal future does not depend on where he happens to live. It is unthinkable that Jehovah would automatically label as “goats” millions of people who live in lands where they never had an opportunity to respond to the Kingdom message. (Matt. 25:46) The righteous Judge of all the earth cares even more about these individuals than we ever could. We do not know how Jehovah will maneuver events during the great tribulation. Perhaps some of these people will have an opportunity to learn about Jehovah, put faith in him, and take their stand on Jehovah’s side when he sanctifies himself before all nations.—Ezek. 38:16.

After the great tribulation starts, . . . might some who see these events have a change of heart?

16. What have we come to know about Jehovah? (See also picture.)

16 Through our study of the Bible, we have come to know just how much Jehovah values human life. He gave his Son’s life so that all of us may have the prospect of living forever. (John 3:16) We have all felt Jehovah’s tender affection. (Isa. 49:15) He knows each of us by name. In fact, he knows us so well as individuals that should we die, he can re-create every unique detail and restore every memory that makes us who we are! (Matt. 10:29-31) Surely, we have good reason to be confident that our loving heavenly Father will judge each individual in a perfectly balanced, righteous, and merciful way.—Jas. 2:13.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

I’m confused as to what you believe they are saying but I’m not confused to what they are saying the new light is.

You are confused at what I say BECAUSE you are confused at the article and new light.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

Those who died before Armageddon are resurrected.

If they didn't die and Armageddon came IF THESE ONES RESPONDED FAVOURABLE to the events of the Great Tribulation and "helped Christ Brothers" they have a chance to be saved through Armageddon even though not a JW.

Finally you get it. That is the change right there! Thus for these people in your example it doesn't matter WHEN they die ie before Armageddon because they have a chance to pass through Armageddon IF THEY RESPOND during the Great Tribulation,.

Notsure you keep believing the old light that it would be better if your unrighteous loved ones died before Armageddon?

NOWHERE EVER DO I SAY THIS!