Posts by notsurewheretogo

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

NOTE the sentence: "we can be confident that “the Judge of all the earth” will do what is right"

Jehovah JUDGES those at Big A and if those that are not baptised but are deemed to want to turn to JW have a chance to be saved but no-one can say for definite who.

NOTE the context of the phrase "But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die."? What precedes it is: "It would almost be better if my relative dies before the great tribulation begins so that there is hope for his resurrection.” There are surely kind motives behind such expressions."

The context of the phrase about "a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die" is about those wanting family members to die before the Big A (or those not heard their preaching work).

NOW note the sentence on Jehovah being a judge...which occurs at the Big A!

How on earth can you think when they say "But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die." means EVERY person gets through the Big A without being judged is utterly preposterous.

The article clearly says there is a judging...it is just they are not so dogmatic in that it will be JUST JW's that get through. Rather they are saying JW's and some non JWs who have a good heart or those who have a good heart who haven't heard the good news may get through.

AND therefore JW dubs shouldn't wish that their family die before the Big A as Jehoover may still get them through IF they are judged worthy.

It really isn't that hard to understand.

Note the next paragraph:

Through our study of the Bible, we have come to know just how much Jehovah values human life. He gave his Son’s life so that all of us may have the prospect of living forever. (John 3:16) We have all felt Jehovah’s tender affection. (Isa. 49:15) He knows each of us by name. In fact, he knows us so well as individuals that should we die, he can re-create every unique detail and restore every memory that makes us who we are! (Matt. 10:29-31) Surely, we have good reason to be confident that our loving heavenly Father will judge each individual in a perfectly balanced, righteous, and merciful way.—Jas. 2:13.

There is a still a judging of every person at the Big A and nothing has changed there! Most will perish according to their current doctrine, it is now just some not JW's get through based on Jehovah the perfect judge etc.

The whole three paragraphs are trying to help JW dubs NOT wish their unbelieving family dead (or those not ever heard the preaching) now so they get through the Big A as the only previous way to get into paradise if not a JW was to die prior to the Big A.

Now they don't and simply rely on Jehoover the judge and they are simply softening their previous very dogmatic stance.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

Here are the two paragraphs:

14 At times, we hear someone say, “It would almost be better if my relative dies before the great tribulation begins so that there is hope for his resurrection.” There are surely kind motives behind such expressions. But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die. Jehovah is the perfect Judge—he renders just and righteous decisions. (Read Psalm 33:4, 5.) We can be confident that “the Judge of all the earth” will do what is right.—Gen. 18:25.

15 It is also reasonable to conclude that a person’s eternal future does not depend on where he happens to live. It is unthinkable that Jehovah would automatically label as “goats” millions of people who live in lands where they never had an opportunity to respond to the Kingdom message. (Matt. 25:46) The righteous Judge of all the earth cares even more about these individuals than we ever could. We do not know how Jehovah will maneuver events during the great tribulation. Perhaps some of these people will have an opportunity to learn about Jehovah, put faith in him, and take their stand on Jehovah’s side when he sanctifies himself before all nations.—Ezek. 38:16.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

But you are not right because the new light says now you don’t have to wish your unrighteous loved ones die beforehand, if they are alive during Armageddon they will have the same chance as if they died before

BASED ON THEIR HEART CONDITION OF THE FAMILY MEMBER!!!!

It DOES NOT mean EVERY person alive at the Big A survives. The "chance" is based on a righteous heart.

Stop trolling.

Understand the phrase "person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die" in CONTEXT that the WT was referring to the desire of JW's wanting their family to die before Big A so they get a chance in the paradise. That is the context and the heart condition and Jehovah judging these ones at the Big A still applies!

Sheesh!

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

You guys are wrong, you are reading it incorrectly. I've put what the new light means many times in here clearly but you are twisting it to mean something else.

I don't know how else to put it clearly.

Mikejw keeps quoting: "person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die"

This is now true, it used to be die before the Big A and you come back but if alive during the Big A and not a baptised JW you are dead forever and hence why many JW's wanted their unbelieving family members to die prior to the Big A. Remember this is talking about death NOT death at the hands of a god.

The new light is simply saying that some that are currently unrighteous during the Big A may not get killed by Jesus but rather come through the Big A BECAUSE OF THEIR HEART CONDITION.

So instead of a hard and fast "you ain't a baptised JW at the Big A your dead" it is now "you are not a baptised JW during the Big A but you may be saved if Jehoover deems your heart as righteous."

I'm not sure why you are missing that Jehoover still applies this criteria to those that go through the Big A. That criteria is still applied but no longer applies JUST to baptised JW's.

It really is that simple and doesn't mean billions of non JWs get saved at the Big A.

It simply means JW's gets saved at the Big A PLUS some who have the right heart condition.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

A persons eternal future depends on their heart condition...if they die before the Big A they are guaranteed a resurrection.

If they are alive during the Big A they are reliant on the mercy of Jehoover and reading of their heart.

This doesn't equate to billions passing through Armageddon.

Not sure what you guys are smoking.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

But it is clearly not as it makes the Big A pointless.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

No you are twisting it.

OLD LIGHT: You must be a baptised JW and righteous to survive Big A, everyone else dies at Big A and all unrighteous who died prior to Big A (unless like Hitler etc) get resurrected.

NEW LIGHT: All baptised JW's and righteous JW's survive Big A and some who may not be JW's but have a righteous heart may survive the Big A, all unrighteous who dies prior to Big A (unless like Hitler etc) get resurrected.

The difference is now they say officially some may not be a baptised JW but have the right heart and pass through the Big A and hence not necessary to HAVE to die before the Big A to survive it.

But the key criteria is Jehovah sees their righteous heart and that they would be a good subject.

That does not mean billions pass through the Big A. They simply changed the criteria from having to be a baptised JW to one who Jehovah sees their heart as righteous.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

If they are still alive when Armageddon comes they would get into paradise just as if they died beforehand unless they were really really bad.

No no that is not what it means. It means they would get into the paradise even if alive at the Big A IF their heart was deemed good by Jehoover. That is a massive difference to what you are saying.

Unrighteous ones have the same chance of being in paradise if they died beforehand or not.
Going by this new light BILLIONS now living will never die

It doesn't mean at that all! Stop posting this crap. The new light means IF the drug taker had a righteous heart he may be saved. It's not a guarantee ALL people are saved, only those that are deemed righteous by Jehoover and that will not be billions according to their doctrine.

The new light is simply taking away their dogmatic approach as in "you must be baptised" to a more softer "Jehovah knows the heart and may preserve some even though not a follower depending on their heart".

These would be very few but appeases the mother in your example.

Unrighteous ones have the same chance of being in paradise if they died beforehand or not.

Correct, a chance, but doesn't mean they will. 99% of the unrighteous will not. It's just softening their stance not to be so rigid. There is a chance all on earth convert to being a JW but it is unlikely.

You are taking "a chance" and then suggesting it means billions will pass through. They won't according to their doctrine...it is just no longer hard and fast rule you must be a baptised JW.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

No, it just means that Jehoover will read hearts and they are now stating what has always been believed really.

It doesn't mean billions will make it through. Yes that is possible but it doesn't mean it is likely. It is just like saying all people on earth will become JW's during the GT....it is possible but unlikely.

All the GB have done is state what really has been mooted by dubs for years. That Jehoover will read hearts and allow some through etc. But not billions...just the dubs family members in the dubs mind and all the GB are doing is appeasing and tickling their ears.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

notsurewheretogo

It is not "unrighteous loved ones" though is it. It is those that are deemed righteous during the GT as their hearts are changed by the events or simply deserve a resurrection.

In no way does he GB or JW's interpret this as billions get though the Big A. It simply means any who know Jehovah prior but do not serve him and see the GT and then turn to him may be saved or deserve a resurrection in paradise.

Billions do not know and will not suddenly become JW's during the GT. It doesn't mean billions of unrighteous will get saved at the Big A etc.

This new light is simply appeasing those still in that their family who are out are not lost at all when the GT starts and Jehoover determines who gets resurrected and not being so dogmatic about it. It is a softening of their hardline stance. Not an open to billions stance.