Elephant

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Posts by Elephant

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  32

  The best way to help any JW out is to remain active

  by Most Noble in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  attacking from the outside will always prove to be unproductive.

  it is more effective to remain inside the domain while raising people's consciousness and letting them see all the flaws behind the farce.

  i have tried it and i have gotten 47 people out in 6 months, while i am still seen as a publisher in good standing.. .

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  Elephant

  

  .......................... ...OUTLAW

  --

  ...outlaw...that was funny...
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  92

  Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

  how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

  i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

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  Elephant

  christalone-

  This comment almost doesn't merit any response. We were talking about the claim that Hislop made that Egypt developed its religion based off of the beliefs held by people in Mesopotamia. When shown to be false Elephant tries to defend Rutherford because Rutherford is associated with his religion. No admission that Rutherford and Hislop were absolutely 100% wrong. No, he just comes back with "why is it hard to assume". Because, Elephant, we are not assuming anything. We are examining what was written and showing that it was 100% false.

  -

  ...Christalone...come on, you can't state that Hislop erroneously claimed that Egypt developed its religion based off beliefs from Mesopotamia, then use words like 'derivatives' to explain that it did, BUT THEN say again that Hislop is 100%, not 50 or 75%, wrong??!!... so which is it??...will you ALSO state that religious concepts and ideas didn't have a point of origin, wherefrom all other religious concepts evolved from?...step back and look at the BIG picture my friend...

  Elephant, do yourself a favor and instead of defending the Watchtower (and the obvious quackery of Rutherford), try and do your own research OUTSIDE of the Watchtower so you can join in on an intelligent conversation with the big kids.

  ...yes, I have heard this now 5 or 6 times, 'go do your own research'...welcome to the REAL world christalone, not EVERYONE will blindly agree with your 'big kid' interpretations...
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  92

  Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

  how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

  i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

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  Elephant

  Solomon...I think Leoalia and I agree on the whole evil in nature thing...
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  92

  Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

  how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

  i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

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  Elephant

  leolia-

  again...on the first point...you unintentionally emphasize Rutherford's point...substitute X god for Y god or vice versa...and its the SAME idea or concept...

  on the second point you state-

  Which have NOTHING to do with historical relationship or contact between peoples. There are things to the human experience that are universal because WE ARE HUMAN and we live on the same planet. Pointing out that, say, both the Egyptians and Babylonians worshipped the sun has nothing to do with showing a contact of ideas

  ...thus my question to Christ Alone was, why is it so hard to assume that Egypt did not adopt religious concepts or ideas from another people, nation, civilization etc?...as you said, we do live in the same planet...

  ...i'm assuming your argument here is the 'lack' of written 'historical relationships'?...of which we do not need to infer your second sentence...again WE ARE HUMAN...

  I was talking about Mesopotamia, yeah of course the Babylonians were influenced by the earlier Sumerians in the same area. But as I mentioned, Babylon was very much a Johnny-come-lately. It had nothing to do with the "invention of religion". That's a myth.

  ...we are not arguing on this point, we both understand that religion is created or makes an appearance at some point, wether in Babylon , Mesopotamia, or Sumeria, or before...fact is religion appears somewhere at some point...

  Regarding my last question…actually, you gave your definition of evil…you did not clearly state wether you accepted this definition or not…you actually gave two definitions, the second one regarding evil in nature i agree with you...as to the first, you commonly label something a ‘myth’, but you didn’t do this with this definition…

  Well, "evil" has an existence within a system of morality that is a fundamental part of human society and culture; evil is what we humans call violations of that moral order, whether at a more universal human level (e.g. violations of human rights), or within a more socially-dependent/constructed level (e.g. violations of specific laws).

  …so do you believe in it or not?...
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  92

  Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

  how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

  i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

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  Elephant

  ...
• 
  92

  Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

  how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

  i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

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  Elephant

  leolaia-

  on the first point...I believe that Rutherford's assertions were being questioned DUE to errors in names and attributing references to the wrong writers...the problem is ...Rutherford's point was the presence of sun worship, NOT who wrote about sun worship...

  on the second point...you stated the following-

  The cultures were clearly independent and the mythologies had little in common beyond expected achetypes. And Babylonian mythology in the 1st millennium BC was partly derivative of both older (3rd millennium BC) Akkadian polytheism and even older (4th-3rd millennium BC) Sumerian religion.

  ...thereby admitting there are common similarities however fundamental or 'expected' ...you also point to 'derivatives'...your own language indicates a point of origin and assimilation in regards to the subject...

  ...on the third point , you wrote-

  BTW I didn't say that Satan isn't real. I said that Satan (as a figure in Jewish-Christian mythology) is an idea....that's a fact everyone can agree on, whether or not there is "a Devil behind the idea". To make things simple, I'll say that I don't believe in the ontological existence in any divinity from any mythology. And that is not to say that I am against the idea of mythology....I love mythology. But I don't accept the claims of any mythology as reflecting an outside reality beyond the culture and ideas that shape it, unless there is good empirical evidence to think otherwise.

  ...in other words...just because you, as an individual doesn't believe in Satan, doesn't mean Satan isn't real?...

  ...what about the idea or concept of the word EVIL?...would you agree that EVIL exists?...
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  4

  Message for Endofmysteries- from Elephant

  by Elephant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  endofmysteries,.

  wanted to pass this thought on to you, regarding your thread of what is about to happen and changes in this world.... ...you present some interesting ideas, and i must say that you are in fact on to something...the key to your comprehension will be to 'build' on previous and successfully discerned concepts before moving on to the next one.... in another thread you brought up masonic ties to the watchtower and we began an interesting conversation there.... ...how about we continue it here?

  ...again, have you contemplated the ouroborus symbol?.

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  Elephant

  ...that symbol could aid you in deciphiring many of your questions...
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  92

  Proof that Satan is in control of the WT and THAT is why the new change will come.....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if anybody ever read the two babylons book, it detailed how christianity became corrupt.

  how over time, not on the spot, but slowly changes were implemented, it started with forbidding anybody to read or hold the bible, and only the leader/pope etc could teach, once there was full absolute power, then satan was able to put in anything he wanted to corrupt it all.

  i am not going to list the articles and scriptures, everybody can find those, i'm just going to quickly show from the history to now how it's happened and the proof and what is happening now.

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  Elephant

  For example, Hislop states: " In ancient Babylon, they worshipped the sun god, 'Baal.' Then this religion moved into Egypt using different names."

  Bad scholarship. In ancient Babylon, the sun god they worshiped was Shamash. Baal was neither a Babylonian deity nor the sun god. In fact, he was the Canaanite storm god. Further, the idea that the religion of Babylon started off in Mesopotamia, crossed the Levant, where Palestine is, and then became the Egyptian religion is simply absurd. Egypt, like Mesopotamia, was one of the cradles of civilization, with its own history and its own religion.

  Hislop also talks alot about Dagon and how the worship of him was an influence to the Catholic church. However, merely researching the worship of Dagon will show you that it largely died out around the 5th century, and the only ones that worshiped any form of him was the Greeks who worshiped him as the god, Marnas. And even more interesting is that the ones that helped to irradicate the worship of Marnas was...the Catholic church!

  Like I said, be careful of Two Babylons and check your facts before trying to teach them to others in the know. They will show you how much of it is wrong.

  christalone-

  i have a couple of problems with these comments...one...wether the god was Baal or shamash...wasn't it still sun worship?

  ...another ...why is it so difficult to comprehend that Egypt adopted religious concepts from other nations? was Egypt the cradle of civilization?

  ...and leolaia...have you ever trully attempted to confirm if Satan is real? or are you saying that satan is not real because until now i havent seen proof of it, but if proof was presented..thereby allowing the possibility that he COULD be real?
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  57

  Do You Realize That Almost EVERY Society Publication Is "Old Light" Now?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now that the "faithful & discreet slave class" has become essentially the governing body since 1919, almost every publication is obsolete and useless!

  (i know, they are useless)..... the fds doctrine is a core teaching unique to jehovah's witnesses and now i believe they will have to change all of their understandings that are recorded in the revelation climax book, ezekiel books---every prophetic book written by the society!.

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  Elephant

  Elephant, doesn't it alarm you in just the tiniest way that jehovah is playing Chinese Whispers with the Governing Body/FDS? Charles Darwin himself would be mightily impressed with the way the Watchtower's doctrine has evolved over the past 100 years. If Jehovah INTENTIONALLY wanted to make 'his' organization look a bunch of clueless chumps, then I believe he would proceed in exactly the way the Watchtower Corporation has done up 'til now. Are the GB faithful and Deceit Slave getting crossed-lines from up there in the Pleiades? Does Jesus, our mediator have a s-s-stammer? A lisp? are the communications being hacked by Satan the Devil?

  The Watchtower's record so far regarding doctrine consistency is piss-poor.

  Personally, I think jehovah is having a Larf.... at your expense.

  By the way, what's the procedure now? Is it just a matter of cut-and-paste from Kingdumb Ministrys?

  new shite-

  it would seem that you have a problem with change...what's so detrimental about change? i'm sure you have too have evolved and changed...would you consider your current state of 'evolution' as detrimental? why would the watchtower organization think so then?

  ...again, study the history and realize that this is nothing new...as for Jehovah...well...lest we forget how Satan threw a monkey wrench into HIS order of things...talk about change...
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  239

  A big shift in the world is about to happen......

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don't want to deceive anyone and i have to clarify a few things so i'm sorry this is going to be a lot more vague then you want.

  infact if you do not already realize or also feel something is about to happen as in the title, then move along, it will be a month or 2 before i update this.

  it's not my intention to annoy anybody, i am too uncomfortable to post any details because it's too new and i need to verify things, and i am also feeling responsible to give a subtle warning, that it might be something somebody needs to see.

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  Elephant

  Remember: in ancient cultures, the medical doctor WAS the philosopher WAS the scientist WAS the holy man/priest/prophet. Realize the specialization of roles that you assume from your current-day view didn't develop until much later in the development of Western civilization.

  solomon...so you are confirming that they played or carried out MANY, SEVERAL, MULTIPLE, MORE THAN ONE ETC..ETC.. roles?