Posts by Blotty

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

(Links will follow in my next comment - Busy with work and family so do not have time to gather atm (& couldnt even if I wanted too), watch this space plz)

as good as I can be, how about yourself..

The scholars I refer are not hard to find.. dont know why you havent found them but ok sure

"Then God is either non existent or died. If God is all he/it's cracked up to be, it would reveal itself and hold it's arms out like a loving Father, not hide so that countless lives can be lost arguing about God. The idea honestly sickens me." - not nessacarily, you conveniently omitted part of my comment.. (the exact reasoning that ironically is the answer to your statement)

"The Muslims claim the same about the Quran. Why are they wrong and Christians aren't?" - never researched the Quran, so honestly couldn't answer that question. As far as I'm aware the Quran is similar to the bible - a dead giveaway would be when it was written (I would be very interested to know now tbh).. also I don't insist "Christians" are right. As when people say that they normally mean trinitarians & iv pointed out before they have very flawed argument's in some cases.

"If Spider-man is a fictional character, then why does New York exist? Lots of fiction has real places and people in it." - there's solid evidence New York exists tho, Spiderman, there is none.. King David however has quite strong evidence (This argument in general is flawed)
The place where the Spiderman story happens is based off a real place, very different and again very flawed.. Why are Egyptians writing about a Jewish King? (Pretty sure he was Jewish) Why do Romans mention a Jewish king (This may be my bad memory, you can take this comment with a grain of salt)
again Ill cite the scholar in their entirety but why fake some of the stuff written in the bible? it seems pointless, there is no rhyme or reason, unless your going to make some stupid argument about the writers having a "narcissistic" idea or something.. in which case I say - get real.
Spiderman is not portrayed as reality nor will ever be recorded as being reality.. (unless you are what i said above) because that would be a lie.. and again rather pointless.. The fact remains there are NO ancient scholars (or historians) that I am aware of that dispute the existence of any bible character, you would think if they didn't exist it would have been disputed.

"Things are certainly not perfectly made." - perfectly is in " " indicating I didn't have a better word at the time, There is evidence against a "big bang" or whatever.. if a random explosion (Ill use that, note there are many other theories out there) how did everything come to exist so "orderly" (i.e water cycle)
note- the bible mentions this ages before it was "discovered" (scripture in following comment) I have a reasonable explanation put it that way.. does anyone know 100% no, is it of interest, yes. Should it be, debatable (if your Mr pessimistic, then its not going to be of much interest and frankly there are other people looking for debates online that know more than me on some of these subjects )

Too answer the "time keeper" bit (this should be self evident, I'm not using "mysterious" language) but Ill say "Historical record" then, you can search these out, but scholars (some non -christian) admit the bible records events that happened very accurately (they do this by cross referencing with other sources)

8

How many terms does the bible bother to explain

by Blotty in

the bible is well known for its ellipsis* and its lack of explanatory statements of a term used.

there are exceptions in grammatical patterns, such as john exclusively using archon for ruler in his writings - which make the term self evident.sin - is defined"one" (unity) - is somewhat defined and also self evident from the context (no exceptions, every person part of that unity is listed in the context)an interesting thing to see would be how many terms are actually used and explained.

*the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues..

Blotty

The Bible is well known for its ellipsis* and its lack of explanatory statements of a term used. There are exceptions in grammatical patterns, such as John exclusively using Archon for ruler in his writings - which make the term self evident.
Sin - is defined
"One" (unity) - is somewhat defined and also self evident from the context (no exceptions, every person part of that unity is listed in the context)

An interesting thing to see would be how many terms are actually used and explained

*the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues.

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

Enoughisenough said: "My conclusion is if one accepts that all has sinned, then when Jesus says his blood is for the forgiveness of sin for all, then I take that to be literal as well."
Who said anything about a symbollic "all" - not me, you can take the "all" literally just not "absolutely" - "other" is implied in "all" so "all" might not mean everybody, there still may be exceptions, again Paul makes this evident.

"All has sinned" - did Jesus sin? did God? what about the majority of the angels? did inanimate objects?(this last one is hyperbole, but you get the point) there lies the flaw in that statement, How do you account for the other scriptures where "all" is used, when it doesn't actually mean "all"?

"The fig tree and all the trees" - is a "fig tree" now not a "tree" because it says "all trees"? you said "all" means everything (or one) so apparently that's how I should understand it - but that is clearly wrong.. and again there are other ways to be saved - I can think of 1 off the top of my head.

again:
“The words ‘world’ and ‘all’ are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that ‘all’ means all persons, taken individually.”
(Particular Redemption, A Sermon, No. 181, 28 Feb 1858.)

Punkofnice: There are many many scholars and historians (Modern & Ancient) who have proven Jesus existed, God is slightly harder as the people in the bible automatically assumed God existed - so no need to place explicit evidence upon the case. (too the writers and people of that time, too us its slightly different)

If the bible is a hoax, Why was new evidence of King David recently (admittedly articles vary on dates) found?
Why did Romans mention Jesus? (atleast 2, that I'm aware, pretty sure there is more - both non-believers)
Why is the bible such an accurate time keeper? (look into it if you haven't, I mean actually look into it)
How did the universe begin? Big Bang? (there are multiple explanations so I will not say "explosion" or anything particular to cover the basis) doubtful
- What caused the "Big bang"?
- Why is everything so "perfectly" made, everything makes sense and has a purpose

+ hundreds more questions

most questions non-believers can throw are answered in the bible.. It is also important to note the Bible was never written to answer all questions, nor does it explicitly explain certain things. This is evident from the lack of defining terms in the bible, its rare that the actual meaning is explained (or spelled out)

"Why does God allow suffering?" - proving a point and an important one
"Why does (bad thing i.e disease) exist" - Sin (one of the rare terms that is somewhat defined)

The evidence is there whether you accept it or not..

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

For these other method I would suggest looking up every clause (& its context) that mentions salvation & be sure to take note of the use of "all" & "everyone" in some of them - the statements MUST harmonise and if they don't, the interpreter is in error (while it is not nessacary to understand Hebrew or Greek to read the bible, I would make a very strong argument for researching culture, time period and linguistical uses of certain words)

even in English, how often do we use "all" or "everyone" and it is absolute (literal)? I can think of very few reasons/ contexts where this is truly the case

again I am NOT going to argue, you asked for an example you got one, questions I'm more than happy to answer (with in reason) But you can also research this online (most of the time a simple google search, with first or second result) very easily in contrast with other subjects where its very hard not to get just one side of teh argument

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

"Can you provide an examp[l]e?" (error corrected for clarity sake)

Just off the top of my head - there are many others provided by others on this website When dealing with similar clauses

The most "famous" one is done by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28

However other examples include

Colossians 1:20 - reconcile to himself "All things" - does this include Satan? no (thats self evident from else where, where the bible says he will be destroyed), does it include animals? not that I'm aware of

scholars comments:

Of particular signifigance to your topic is:

“The words ‘world’ and ‘all’ are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that ‘all’ means all persons, taken individually.”
(Particular Redemption, A Sermon, No. 181, 28 Feb 1858.)

Others not so related but still apply:

“ἄλλος [állos] is sometimes omitted where we would add ‘other.’”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament, Blass & Debrunner, 1961 wrote (p.160))

“ellipsis: “In the broad sense applies to any idea which is not fully expressed grammatically and

leaves it to the hearer or reader to supply the omission because it is self-evident.”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, University of Chicago Press, 1961, section 479, p. 253. Trans. by R. W. Funk)

“ellipses”: “The omission of the notion ‘other, whatever’...is specifically Greek.”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament Blass, Debrunner, Funk 1961, p. 254)

"But the WT says that only 144K are justified (declared righteous). In WT theology, how does those who are not declaed righteous saved from wrath?
The WT has never addressed this question; which is the most important question a person can ask a JW."
answer: Im not going into this in detail as information on this subject in depth is available elsewhere online (& the bible makes it self evident, when you understand certain elements of how it exaggerates)

Who said you had to be declared righteous to be saved from his wrath? I can think of another method in which ones can be saved from Gods wrath..

3

An interesting Blog post

by Blotty in

this is quite an interesting blog post - somethings i find to be "ehh" and some with fundamentally flawed arguments.

but an interesting point of view and worth looking into (not sure if this person is a jw):https://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2021/01/answers-to-10-questions-answers.html.

Blotty

Personally I wouldn't go as far as "falsehood" They are correct in quite a few regards.. Im just not pointing out what I think is right or wrong as I want to remain neutral on most subjects (or as neutral as I can)

3

An interesting Blog post

by Blotty in

this is quite an interesting blog post - somethings i find to be "ehh" and some with fundamentally flawed arguments.

but an interesting point of view and worth looking into (not sure if this person is a jw):https://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2021/01/answers-to-10-questions-answers.html.

Blotty

This is quite an interesting blog post - somethings I find to be "ehh" and some with fundamentally flawed arguments. But an interesting point of view and worth looking into (not sure if this person is a JW):

https://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2021/01/answers-to-10-questions-answers.html

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Blotty

You forget to factor in the detail that alot of what's written in the bible is hyperbole & deeply exaggerated. Exceptions are implied in "all" or "everyone"

The WT position on the 144K is not so easily disproven (I speak from limited experience on the subject, but experience non the less)

I agree with alot of scholars (including Edgar Foster) on the occurrence in Rev likely being literal due to the parallel & other numbers in the same chapter let alone the rest of Revelation.

Just my input, I'm not going to argue, If your interested you will do the research yourself..

16

My favorite Cooking Pot

by Wonderment in

although cooking pots are not directly "religious" subject, perhaps not many will deny that a happy belly can lead to wholesome religious thoughts and peaceful spiritual discussions.. that said, through the years i have tried most major brands of cooking pots - all the way from all-clad to cast-iron skilets - including some with the most extraordinary claims in between.. however, the one we have used the most in our kitchen is one brand from denmark, specifically, the 5 quart pot called "scanpan.

" it is now approaching 40 years of daily use, and it has held-up surprisingly well.

the handles are as tight as day one when we bought it.

Blotty

Wonderment I would like to address an apology to you for my previous comment in this thread, I did not make my thought pattern clear in that comment and multiple bad things could be taken from that comment, So if any offence was taken I apologise that was not the intent or my desire.

I was looking back on a few convo's Iv had and saw this comment and thought it sounds quite bad.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

Blotty

Just my opinion an 2 cents worth