Blotty

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Posts by Blotty

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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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  Blotty

  Sea breeze:
  
  numerous titles are reused - again you omit important information
  
  also might be worth looking at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NikVdhp0YFs
  you can go down a massive rabbit hole - your fallacy has come rather unstuck, but ill let you figure that out or sit in denial (Im more inclined to believe scholars, who are not only qualified to talk on this subject but who also can provide actaul proof of what they are saying, Daniel Wallace being a not very good example admittedly)
  
  you fail to include where God said he was the only savior - Jesus is also a savior, yet savior is also used of humans (same word)
  
  Jesus is called "the light of the world" (remember Jesus is God) but so are his apostles, are they God too?)
  
  e.g we can find a clause where Father is used in 2 different sense in John 8
  The Jews say both of these things:

  John 8:39: “. . .Our father is Abraham. . .”
  

  John 8:41: “. . .we have one Father, God.”
  
  notice just 2 verses apart the Jews have declared Abraham to be their father, yet there one Father is God.. Is Abraham God? no this is obviously being used in 2 different senses..
  One possibly being idiomatic for teacher or forefather
  and the other because thats what they see God as
  However this does not identify Abraham and God as one and the same.
  (consequently this is a direct parallel to: Acts 5:3,4 - Where the HS is claimed to be called God)

  
  

  you can research about the parallels between God and holy spirit - they are used interchangeably a lot of the time because the spirit comes from God (The Father) doesnt make "it" God though
  
  "I thought Satan ruled all the kings of the earth. Whew, somebody needs to tell JW’s that there was a change in administration after Jesus took back what Satan stole."
  
  Is Satan God or is Jesus, Satan? - they are called "kings of the earth" in different senses
  
  The likelyhood the spirit itself raised Jesus from the is weak due to grammatical weaknesses in both Romans 8:11 and the parables clause found in John - in which the holy spirit is never made exempt
  the "of him" clause in Romans 8:11 would not be nessacary - if we take who him refers too we get "spirit of [God]" which adds another logical problem, if the spirit is called why is it being said to be "of [God]" makes "God" sound like a physical location..
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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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  Blotty

  TTYSF
  
  I am in the middle on theology if you had bother to read my post you would have seen I wrote:
  "(The holy spirit may well be a person, but its NEVER called a "He")"
  - by this I mean naturally in the Greek text. I couldn't care less about English translations for the most part - the Greek overrules everytime

  When did I state it was the most "accurate"? please quote me saying that - I never did, it is not by far the most accurate - nor is the KJV or NIV, etc..
  NO bible is 100% accurate IMO

  your post is besides the point nor have you answered the question - where is the holy spirit explicitly called "he" via an antecedent?
  Which source would you consider legitimate then? or Greek "master text"?
  "numerous" scholars have said the same thing Daniel Wallace has..
  
  Bible hub is an evangelical backed website of course it doesn't list the NWT - but ti also doesnt have Dr Goodspeeds bible or James Moffatts or many others I could list. And of course all their bibles will say the same... Its an evangelical website
  
  I use a wide variety of bibles some listed not on bible hub - however there are scholars who have advocated for the NWT (I can get quotes if you like, that will take a while though) Why don't you go and ask Benjamin kedar Kopfstein (Hebrew professor) or Alan Duthie or Dr Goodspeed ("ask" - more like look up his comment regarding the translation) or any of the other numerous scholars who have had (mostly) good things to say
  

  A question Curt Steven Mayes (Th.m, thesis, Dallas theological seminary )raises an interesting question:
  "The fact that John often uses e)kei=noj as the equivalent of a personal pronoun (= he or they) may be significant for the Spirit's personality. But the question is, how is the masculine form in this passage to be explained? Is it meant to teach theology or agree with para/klhtoj? Surely the latter is a grammatically sound conclusion."

  (Pronominal Referents and the Personality of the Holy Spirit - footnote 7 of Wallace's paper)

  secondly - "questionable sources"? this is how Greek also works today (mostly) along with many other languages that have "genderised" nouns... (see sources listed in this wikipedia article (ignore the article itself if you like): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender )
  
  you jump to conclusions on that last bit..

  also see (all use trinitarian scholars):
  
  http://orcuttchristian.org/Wallace_Greek%20Grammar%20and%20the%20Personality%20of%20the%20Holy%20Spirit.pdf
  (Daniel Wallace - Greek scholar)
  
  https://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2016/03/hs-part-1.html (cites trinitarian scholars only)
  
  Does the Trinity ever make sense - Lesriv spencer
  
  does the new world translation committee know Greek - Lesriv spencer
  
  
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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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• 

  Blotty

  Sea breeze:
  
  the posts I linked cover some of that (admittedly, not all) I AM NOT saying W&H are infallible, however you would be surprised which text it is based on.
  What does "spiritism" have to do with anything? that says nothing. Gods own nation practised idolatry on multiple occasions (While claiming to worship him).. Paul was known to kill christians - the point: people have bad stuff in their past and are still doing bad things even when doing bible translation work, nobody is clean - your claim is irrelevant and proves nothing
  
  
  TTYSF:
  I do not wish to debate trinity - I'm only saying, you have missed critical information that other readers should know
  
  including but not limited to
  - the natural antecedent to "he" (masculine) is "Helper" (masculine) NOT holy spirit (neuter) - see Daniel Wallace's study, I have made a post about it
  Greek antecedents must match the thing they refer back to in number and gender (case is conditional as far as I know)
  + Jesus also said in John 16:25 he had been speaking in comparisons (or parables)

  Why is the holy spirit exempt from this - naturally everything said above is taken as a parable

  If you can find me one scripture where the holy spirit is defined as a "He" and/ or takes a masculine antecedent then you'll have more weight - however I know this isn't possible (The holy spirit may well be a person, but its NEVER called a "He")
  
  - see Moffat and Goodspeeds translations (and other trinitarians) on the "in him" subject - in both these texts Goodspeed translates "in union" same as the NWT
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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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  Blotty

  Sea breeze, I see that opinion alot, yet that is also a fallacy
  
  Takes only a little bit of googling to find out why I say this
  
  Note I said "like" there are more many more infact
  
  an interesting post written by Edgar Foster on the Westcott and Hort texts:
  https://fosterheologicalreflections.blogspot.com/2019/10/stanley-porter-assesses-westcott-and.html
  
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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

  .

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  2. 
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  Blotty

  Punk of nice:
  Well I apologise if that came off passive aggressive - not my intention in the least, my piint being Im stil working on what I said I would, I am a person of my word
  
  
  TTYF:
  I don't think you are providing all the information to readers here, you have left off quite abit mentioned by people like AT Robertson, information that disputes your claim (most trinitarians themselves)
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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Blotty

  PunkofNice:
  (sidenote: Im compiling those links I promised, just making sure most bases are covered, since you dont seem to just want to do a simple google search for scholarly articles)
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMlzoo0Sps&ab_channel=NWTDefended
  
  see this video ^: Heb 1:5 does NOT negate Jesus being the archangel in the least - it negates him being "fully" God tho as why is Paul comparing God to the Angels? and trying to point out is superiority to them? seems pointless no matter how you look at it.. (Too some degree, I can still find other holes in it, but my comment below still stands)
  
  The Heb 1:5 argument has been refuted numerous times to quite a large extent..
  
  
  
  
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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Blotty

  Wonderment:
  you can add Mark 4:13 to that list - The omission of "other" there is incredibly self evident, granted its not written by Paul.. But it carries the same weight
  
  John 14:14 – “If you ask me anything I will do it.” - is similar in nature as it is hyberbole limited by statements made in other places in the same chapter (Im pretty sure) let alone the same Book.
  
  Col 1:20 "ALL things will be reconciled" - does this include Satan? unrepentant ones? not according to other writings such as John & Revelation who state otherwise.
  
  regarding Heb 11:16 see Edgar Foster's blog, I believe he has made comments on some of the NWT's "wooden" or awkward translations. Heb 11:16 is awkward but far from dishonest.
  
  For others see:
  https://fosterheologicalreflections.blogspot.com/2014/06/do-jehovahs-witnesses-claim-to-be.html
  https://fosterheologicalreflections.blogspot.com/2013/08/differences-between-great-crowd-and.html
  
  
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  13

  What is Greg Stafford up to these days?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  you may have been wondering: what is greg stafford up to these days?

  lots of interesting things, is the answer.

  exposing the false trinity doctrine, of course, but keeping on top of other issues too.

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  Blotty

  I agree with him on some stuff not so much on others, hey we don't all agree all of the time - He has done well for himself and I respect his work
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  16

  Article & Documentary on the Divine name

  by Blotty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  video documentary and academic article on the divine name:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgxsyiqtc&ab_channel=johnwyatthttps://www.academia.edu/14029315/the_name_of_god_y_eh_ow_ah_which_is_pronounced_as_it_is_written_i_eh_ou_ah_simplified_edition?email_work_card=title this does not prove gods name was present in the nt, however some points do lead us to that conclusion simply by process of elimination.

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  Blotty

  Peaceful pete - I believe (not 100% sure) that that concept in itsel was disproven by Greg Stafford and others. Dont quote me on that, Im not 100% it may well be I'm confusing 2 different issues (I dont have time right at this second to look it up tho so apologies)
  
  But ill admit I do find it interesting (The whole subject to me is interesting)
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  8

  How many terms does the bible bother to explain

  by Blotty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the bible is well known for its ellipsis* and its lack of explanatory statements of a term used.

  there are exceptions in grammatical patterns, such as john exclusively using archon for ruler in his writings - which make the term self evident.sin - is defined"one" (unity) - is somewhat defined and also self evident from the context (no exceptions, every person part of that unity is listed in the context)an interesting thing to see would be how many terms are actually used and explained.

  *the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues..

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  Blotty

  sorry phizzy, Im not quite following what you mean.. (may just be me being stupid)
  I'm pointing to terms like what was put in my original post..
  
  There are any words/ terms online where people argue about the meaning. The simple reason is the writer saw no need to define the meaning as it was self evident