I have NEVER encountered any JW that "forced" me to donate.. infact again I disagree with alot of the issues raised.. some SEEM to just an attack on the WT when others do the same..
"I think WTC does not get its fair share of criticism." - critcism yes sure, I can agree.
blanket hate they get plenty of that and the irony is on some cases they have been right.. (even if for theological reasons others don't agree) again going by the bible the ones claiming to be "Christian" and following Christ shouldn't be hating and being derogatory as Jesus nor the bible ever said to do that, infact it encourages the opposite actions (implying the flipside is incorrect)
Blotty
JoinedPosts by Blotty
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28
Bait and Switch "Bible studies"
by Vanderhoven7 inmark jones, a witness for over 30 years describes what jws call bible studies offered to the public.. .
"they (jehovah's witnesses) offer you a free home “bible” study - which turns out to be a study of a watchtower publication with the bible brought out as an afterthought to try and prop up whatever current idea the governing body are claiming is “the truth” this week.. i think it’s underhanded.. when my parents became jehovah’s witnesses and they offered people a free home “bible” study, this is what they brought to study with them:.
what, did you think they were going to study the bible with you?.
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Blotty
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Article & Documentary on the Divine name
by Blotty invideo documentary and academic article on the divine name:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgxsyiqtc&ab_channel=johnwyatthttps://www.academia.edu/14029315/the_name_of_god_y_eh_ow_ah_which_is_pronounced_as_it_is_written_i_eh_ou_ah_simplified_edition?email_work_card=title this does not prove gods name was present in the nt, however some points do lead us to that conclusion simply by process of elimination.
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Blotty
again.. see Edgar J Foster and Greg Stafford... pretty sure even that very video addresses most of these issues
and my main "expertise" is in Greek my Hebrew is very weak
its proudly displayed on churches, yet a lot of people don't know it & its not present in modern day bibles where it has been CONFIRMED to be originally.. yes doesn't seem suspicious at all (sarcasm)
God never said "remove my name from the bible" - even if the law is interpreted as a law not to say it.. + the many other issues that arise -
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Bait and Switch "Bible studies"
by Vanderhoven7 inmark jones, a witness for over 30 years describes what jws call bible studies offered to the public.. .
"they (jehovah's witnesses) offer you a free home “bible” study - which turns out to be a study of a watchtower publication with the bible brought out as an afterthought to try and prop up whatever current idea the governing body are claiming is “the truth” this week.. i think it’s underhanded.. when my parents became jehovah’s witnesses and they offered people a free home “bible” study, this is what they brought to study with them:.
what, did you think they were going to study the bible with you?.
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Blotty
What's the difference between what the WT and other websites do that offer to "teach" you the bible? IMO its easier to study the bible when its broken down section by section - I don't get the complaint on either side of the spectrum for this one tbh
then again I may also be bias as I think the hate the Watchtower gets is woefully unjustified in many respects (It quite ironic tbh)
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Article & Documentary on the Divine name
by Blotty invideo documentary and academic article on the divine name:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgxsyiqtc&ab_channel=johnwyatthttps://www.academia.edu/14029315/the_name_of_god_y_eh_ow_ah_which_is_pronounced_as_it_is_written_i_eh_ou_ah_simplified_edition?email_work_card=title this does not prove gods name was present in the nt, however some points do lead us to that conclusion simply by process of elimination.
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Blotty
accouple of things:
I can find this nowhere on JW.org - Gertoux is also not a JW, ALL JW videos that I am aware of only have JWs in them.
The majority is not always correct, that was proven hundreds of years ago.. recent example is of John 1:1, where scholars in the masses now acknowledge that the NWTs rendering is linguistically justifiable (though they may disagree for theological reasons)
While Rolf was a Jehovah's Witness, I would be interested to know when this was made. Rolf (unfortunate for trinitarians) is qualified to make statements on these subjects.
" there is no conspiracy to conceal the tetragramaton." - even though I have my disagreements with the Witnesses, I actually believe them on this.. If this statement was true why is it not used in most translations Hebrew bibles? where every scholar CONFIRMS it appears over 6000+ times? What about the comments made by Benjamin Kedar?
The law in Lev never said anything about pronouncing the name... just not to attach it to worthless things.
seems odd..
The pronunciation and "J in Hebrew" argument also fall flat for reasons that are self evident.
(see comments by Edgar J Foster/ Greg Stafford)
Also very convenient that the name required to allow the trinity to thrive when absent is the name that is controversial & ignored -
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Article & Documentary on the Divine name
by Blotty invideo documentary and academic article on the divine name:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgxsyiqtc&ab_channel=johnwyatthttps://www.academia.edu/14029315/the_name_of_god_y_eh_ow_ah_which_is_pronounced_as_it_is_written_i_eh_ou_ah_simplified_edition?email_work_card=title this does not prove gods name was present in the nt, however some points do lead us to that conclusion simply by process of elimination.
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Blotty
Video Documentary and academic article on the divine name:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjpGXSyIqTc&ab_channel=JohnWyatt
https://www.academia.edu/14029315/The_Name_of_God_Y_eH_oW_aH_Which_is_pronounced_as_it_is_Written_I_Eh_oU_Ah_Simplified_edition?email_work_card=title
This does not prove Gods name was present in the NT, however some points do lead us to that conclusion simply by process of elimination -
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How many terms does the bible bother to explain
by Blotty inthe bible is well known for its ellipsis* and its lack of explanatory statements of a term used.
there are exceptions in grammatical patterns, such as john exclusively using archon for ruler in his writings - which make the term self evident.sin - is defined"one" (unity) - is somewhat defined and also self evident from the context (no exceptions, every person part of that unity is listed in the context)an interesting thing to see would be how many terms are actually used and explained.
*the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues..
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Blotty
Note: I'm strictly talking bible terms and its uses here not WTS or any other religion or organisation.
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Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K
by Sea Breeze inwhat were we thinking?
mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .
which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.
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Blotty
Peaceful Pete
The poster raises some good issues, however again if they are the same group... or symbolic, there's one underlying question.. that everybody seems to fail to realise.
On the issue of 144,000 I'm more inclined to agree with the Witnesses, Edgar Foster & Jim space along with a few others. (except for maybe 3 things which have 0 biblical basis, in my opinion) -
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Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K
by Sea Breeze inwhat were we thinking?
mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .
which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.
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Blotty
Waton
you can do the research yourself, you'll find many non-Christians who also disagree with you for various reasons.
there are numerous flaws in that argument, which I may one day address, but right now have little time to do -
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Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K
by Sea Breeze inwhat were we thinking?
mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .
which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.
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Blotty
(Links will follow in my next comment - Busy with work and family so do not have time to gather atm (& couldnt even if I wanted too), watch this space plz)
as good as I can be, how about yourself..
The scholars I refer are not hard to find.. dont know why you havent found them but ok sure
"Then God is either non existent or died. If God is all he/it's cracked up to be, it would reveal itself and hold it's arms out like a loving Father, not hide so that countless lives can be lost arguing about God. The idea honestly sickens me." - not nessacarily, you conveniently omitted part of my comment.. (the exact reasoning that ironically is the answer to your statement)
"The Muslims claim the same about the Quran. Why are they wrong and Christians aren't?" - never researched the Quran, so honestly couldn't answer that question. As far as I'm aware the Quran is similar to the bible - a dead giveaway would be when it was written (I would be very interested to know now tbh).. also I don't insist "Christians" are right. As when people say that they normally mean trinitarians & iv pointed out before they have very flawed argument's in some cases.
"If Spider-man is a fictional character, then why does New York exist? Lots of fiction has real places and people in it." - there's solid evidence New York exists tho, Spiderman, there is none.. King David however has quite strong evidence (This argument in general is flawed)
The place where the Spiderman story happens is based off a real place, very different and again very flawed.. Why are Egyptians writing about a Jewish King? (Pretty sure he was Jewish) Why do Romans mention a Jewish king (This may be my bad memory, you can take this comment with a grain of salt)
again Ill cite the scholar in their entirety but why fake some of the stuff written in the bible? it seems pointless, there is no rhyme or reason, unless your going to make some stupid argument about the writers having a "narcissistic" idea or something.. in which case I say - get real.
Spiderman is not portrayed as reality nor will ever be recorded as being reality.. (unless you are what i said above) because that would be a lie.. and again rather pointless.. The fact remains there are NO ancient scholars (or historians) that I am aware of that dispute the existence of any bible character, you would think if they didn't exist it would have been disputed.
"Things are certainly not perfectly made." - perfectly is in " " indicating I didn't have a better word at the time, There is evidence against a "big bang" or whatever.. if a random explosion (Ill use that, note there are many other theories out there) how did everything come to exist so "orderly" (i.e water cycle)
note- the bible mentions this ages before it was "discovered" (scripture in following comment) I have a reasonable explanation put it that way.. does anyone know 100% no, is it of interest, yes. Should it be, debatable (if your Mr pessimistic, then its not going to be of much interest and frankly there are other people looking for debates online that know more than me on some of these subjects )Too answer the "time keeper" bit (this should be self evident, I'm not using "mysterious" language) but Ill say "Historical record" then, you can search these out, but scholars (some non -christian) admit the bible records events that happened very accurately (they do this by cross referencing with other sources)
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How many terms does the bible bother to explain
by Blotty inthe bible is well known for its ellipsis* and its lack of explanatory statements of a term used.
there are exceptions in grammatical patterns, such as john exclusively using archon for ruler in his writings - which make the term self evident.sin - is defined"one" (unity) - is somewhat defined and also self evident from the context (no exceptions, every person part of that unity is listed in the context)an interesting thing to see would be how many terms are actually used and explained.
*the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues..
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Blotty
The Bible is well known for its ellipsis* and its lack of explanatory statements of a term used. There are exceptions in grammatical patterns, such as John exclusively using Archon for ruler in his writings - which make the term self evident.
Sin - is defined
"One" (unity) - is somewhat defined and also self evident from the context (no exceptions, every person part of that unity is listed in the context)
An interesting thing to see would be how many terms are actually used and explained*the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues.