English.
Are apostates good people or not?
Posts by sleepy
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146Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
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146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
No chance.
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146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
Personnaly speaking I am no better a person now than I was as a JW.
I'm motivated to do good for the same reasons as before , I do bad things also just like before.Also I dont belive we were somewhere in the middle before.
You are conditioned by the people around you whether you realise it or not.There no level field to return to no absolute truth or understanding.You just realise your previous beliefs were wrong.I wonder if the years of life after the "truth" eventualy erode peoples memory of it.Do those who have left longer or under bad circumstances picture it in a distorted way as a means to justify themselves?
No justification is needed the facts alone are enough to show the religon is wrong.
To create a belief that all witnesses are only selfishly motivated and bad people and robotic is misleading.When you left the truth did it change how you acted toward others or did only your beliefs change?
The act of leaving the witnesses is a intellectual one for most people this act does not change you as a person on its own.If you were selfish before you still will be , unloving you still will be.Since when does leaving the org make people bastions of truth, logic, goodwill and all other nice things?
Edited by - sleepy on 4 December 2001 10:30:30
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146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
Chester I agree.
I never said the org was good.
I'm a bit worried about how some have demonised witnesses as people and the effect it has on our ability to be taken seriously by witnesses. -
146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
The fact that so many disagree shows to me they are unbalanced.
It was said I was missing the point (FARKEL)
Guess what I started the post I was talking about witnesses as people not the organisation , everyone else who is talking about the org is missing the point.
If apostate continue to imply that witnesses always have bad motives for what they do just as the witnesses claim the apostates have bad motives for what they do we will not get anywhere.
If you can show me that teaching the bible has helped no one in anyway and that all witnesses do the preaching work out of hate and hope for all to die then fair enought you will have made your point.
Drawing analogies will not help the witnesses have not exterminated six million Jews nor do they fight in wars, ( some here would justify innocent death in war as a means to an end).
They have followed doctrine which were wrong because they believed they were doing the right thing not because they want to harm someone or hurt them.
If you paint this false picture of jehovahs witnesses they will never listen to you as whay you say won't tally with what they see in the org.
This is about being UNBALANCED that is in imputing too much bad motives to people and never using the good aspects to your advantage inorder to help them.Edited by - sleepy on 4 December 2001 3:46:51
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146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
patio34
What is the point you are making?
I do not know the motives of the Mafia ,Hitler or the Taliban.
I do know the motives of many witnesses.
I'm, as Frenchy correctly points out talking about the motivation that people had to do what they did as witnesses.
Often it was love.
People did go on the ministry because they wanted to.
For example if you are a witness you believe you will survive arrmageddon if you do 1 hour or 100 so what motivates a person to do more? Its not fear .
Most elders wanted to help people and did not desire authority over others.
Dont confuse the results with the motives.
If a person is taught and given evidence that they do have the answers to peoples problems they may be wrong if they try to help, they are not evil. -
146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
English Guy
Dubs knock on doors to save their own skin, they detest worldlings!My wife is standing here reading this , she is still a JW she says she goes on the ministry because she wants to help people , is she a lier?
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146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
English Guy,
I dont know what experiences you had in the org , I 'm sure that it effects you viewpoint greatly just like it does mine.
The point again is that if we claim that Jehovahs witnesses are all bad people, never any good, stupid, idiots whatever, we are being just like them. Apostates are all evil, bad the've got impure motives .
This is silly.
The fact is that many are good people some are bad.
In the world generally there are many bad people and many good.
Coming out of Jehovahs witnesses will not make you a better person alone.
Many are probably no different .
Each person has the ability to choose to do good to others or not , but as witnesses we were taught the fruits of the Spirit ,Love , joy peace etc and we tried to practise this.
How is this wrong?
This was an improvment for many people.
I had a friend who when he was in the world used to stop people in the street and beat them up.
He now hates his former live and tries to live by bible principles, some of which I dont agree with.
I would say he is now a better person than before.
He could change for the better still if he knew his current beliefs were misguided or he could choose to go back to his former way.
Whatever happens where he walks is a safer place for others now.
Teaching Bible principles did do good to some poeple. -
146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
Perhaps you need to ask yourself why did you do what you did as a JW.
Did you really think you were doing good for people.
Why did you go on the ministry?
Was it because you wanted to save peoples lives? Was it because thought they were going to die. You wanted to help .You got up early on a saturday you sacrificed your sundays you gave up your week nights.
Why ? Because you wanted to be a good person you wanted to help people.
If you weren't doing this for these reasons as a witnesses and it was all done out of fear or habit you are different to most witnesses I know.
If you believe witnesses are evil you'll never help them ,youre coming from a different angle and will never see from their shoes.
If you continually put them down, you'll just put them off , they'll never listen because for many the extreme cases we may site are not the norm but the exception.
Perhaps things are different else where , I doubt it, I'm sure you'll let me know.Edited by - sleepy on 3 December 2001 15:42:15
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146
Friends we are too unbalanced.
by sleepy inwell sometimes we are.. look we have the knowledge and experience to help a lot of people.must of us have one time been jw's and understand how many think.so lets not put them off by being too negative.. when we were witnesses most of us were quite happy .
we tried to be good people , to put into practise principles that many people think are good.
we did this sometimes even when we didn't want to , because we thought god would hold us accountable and because we cared for people .
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sleepy
I thought that would get people going.
There is an organisation.
There are people who belong to an organisation.
These are different things .
If you belive there is no good in Jehovahs witnesses as people you are just as blind as you were before .
I know personnaly peolpe whos lives were changed for the better.
I personnaly helped people myself I know lots of Jehovahs witnesses who are very kind and loving people .
They will not shun you or hate you .
They give to charities and activly help them amongst many other things.
I came from a congregation were there were few problems , around my area this was the norm.
Just because someone belives something that is wrong does not make them evil.
You will do no good in demonising them.
This does not ignore the bad that does happen the point I was making was being BALANCED,I'm not saying JW's are amazing or special lots of other people do good as well.
If you dont recognise this or remmeber this you were in a different religon to me .Edited by - sleepy on 3 December 2001 15:16:50