Remember this too, intrigue169: the Governing Body inoculates Jehovah's Witnesses to many of the arguments you, I, or others on this site might urge them to consider. A hall crash by its very nature gives you precious seconds to shout some coherent phrase or few sentences before, again, the Elders toss you. Sometimes the Elders even try to drown out your voice: in some of Derek O'Haire's videos on YouTube the Elders will lead the congregation in song or urge them to start applauding, thereby drowning out your voice. So with those 30 seconds you're liable to fall back upon one of the many arguments they've told them to disregard ("We're not a cult, a cult is...") because these arguments are short and to the point. Be aware of that... contextual limitation.
john.prestor
JoinedPosts by john.prestor
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hall crash
by intrigue169 ini live in the des moines iowa area , i would be interested in doing a kingdom hall crash after watching some on youtube, i would love to do that with a group of people.
i haven't meet any other ex jw around here.
i was never baptized, i always knew i could never live up to jehovah's standard so i never did even consider baptizing.
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hall crash
by intrigue169 ini live in the des moines iowa area , i would be interested in doing a kingdom hall crash after watching some on youtube, i would love to do that with a group of people.
i haven't meet any other ex jw around here.
i was never baptized, i always knew i could never live up to jehovah's standard so i never did even consider baptizing.
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john.prestor
inrigue169, you're missing my point. I don't believe in God and I'm not a Christian with some alternative view on the subject of how one gains salvation. What I'm telling you is this: that kind of question will do you no good when talking to Jehovah's Witnesses because they believe their salvation comes from, essentially, their practices (preaching door-to-door, attending meetings) and their "association" (membership) in the organization. The "How do I absolve my sins with seconds left to live question" will not make sense to them, and in fact, I've seen someone try it on YouTube at a literature cart; the Witnesses don't appear even mildly fazed.
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hall crash
by intrigue169 ini live in the des moines iowa area , i would be interested in doing a kingdom hall crash after watching some on youtube, i would love to do that with a group of people.
i haven't meet any other ex jw around here.
i was never baptized, i always knew i could never live up to jehovah's standard so i never did even consider baptizing.
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john.prestor
I respect your desire to bring about change, but trust me on this: there is nothing you can say in the minute or two before the Elders swarm you and usher you out that will change anyone's mind. That's not how conversion and deconversion work.
Intrigue169, your 'sins forgiven' remark presumes that you come from a fundamentalist Christian background in which a person prays the 'sinner's prayer to get to heaven. Your theology doesn't translate into their theology, be aware of that. They do not believe their eternal destiny comes down to a 30 second mantra.
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For Those Claiming That the GB are Simply Naive - Another Philly Story
by berrygerry inhttp://www.philly.com/philly/news/jehovahs-witnesses-child-sex-abuse-stephen-lett-chessa-manion-20180620.html.
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john.prestor
The Governing Body know at some level what they are. The demonizing of dissenters and doubters, the refusal to talk with the media, the subtle twisting of information, their unwillingness to protect children, the distortion of the past... It's too Orwellian for it to be entirely accidental. Lett's remarks just provide further evidence to those, like myself, who perceive a level of conscious intent in the Governing Body's actions.
They have to be conscious at some level, their livelihood depends on the organization's success. To think that a group of essentially CEOs could be that naive is frankly naive in and of itself.
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Should it be considered sexual harassment?
by Addison0998 inon thing that really makes me angry and disgusted is when i think of the way in the past that the elders pressured me over and over again to have a meeting with them over a petty make out and petting incident.
they asked such instrusive, personal questions like, “did he touch your breast, for how long?
under or over your clothes?” i know that this happens to thousands of people, especially young women, and it’s just not right, it makes me so angry that i almost feel tempted to confront the elder who especially did this, when i see him at the convention in a few weeks and tell him what a sick person he is and how much trauma he caused me, manipulating me and pressuring me to answer such instrusive questions while he sat there and took notes!!
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john.prestor
I agree, do it in front of his mother or wife or at least other women, they may not even know about the kind of disturbing, invasive questions Elders may ask and it may help them stand up to the Elders if they're ever dragged into the back room. You're powerful now. They can't keep you down.
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Should it be considered sexual harassment?
by Addison0998 inon thing that really makes me angry and disgusted is when i think of the way in the past that the elders pressured me over and over again to have a meeting with them over a petty make out and petting incident.
they asked such instrusive, personal questions like, “did he touch your breast, for how long?
under or over your clothes?” i know that this happens to thousands of people, especially young women, and it’s just not right, it makes me so angry that i almost feel tempted to confront the elder who especially did this, when i see him at the convention in a few weeks and tell him what a sick person he is and how much trauma he caused me, manipulating me and pressuring me to answer such instrusive questions while he sat there and took notes!!
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john.prestor
Addison0998, if you think that confronting this man will help you heal, you should do it. I've confronted people who have hurt me in the past, and it's helped me heal. Think out what you're going to say ahead of time and keep the anger in check when you confront him: in a calm but firm voice tell him exactly how he made you feel, and that what he did was wrong (whether it qualifies legally as sexual harassment or not it's creepy and feels voyeuristic). He'll doubtlessly get defensive or angry, and at that point I'd encourage you to simply walk away after telling him something to the effect of, "I've said what I needed to say." And then you can let that anger go.
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Why Do People Oppose Jehovah's Witnesses?
by BlackSpirit injesus christ, the son of the most high god, jehovah has this to say: "if the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.
if you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own.
now because you are no part of the world, but i have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you.
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john.prestor
BlackSpirit, it's meaningless to say that your "leader is the Christ." You know, and we know, that Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization listens to the Governing Body first and foremost. This isn't anything extraordinary in and of itself: many other Christian groups also claim to follow Jesus and yet also listen to human leaders. What makes it extraordinary is that Jehovah's Witnesses deny evident reality: you do have human leaders, of course you do, every human enterprise does. When you deny something so obvious it makes us wonder why you're denying this and what it accomplishes.
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Why Do People Oppose Jehovah's Witnesses?
by BlackSpirit injesus christ, the son of the most high god, jehovah has this to say: "if the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.
if you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own.
now because you are no part of the world, but i have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you.
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john.prestor
BlackSpirit, you need to come to terms with something: Armageddon will never come, and the Governing Body will continue to enrich itself at your expense, enjoying a cushy lifestyle in a state of the art headquarters deep in a national park. They travel internationally for nothing, eat at fancy restaurants, and appear to obtain expensive gifts from the organization and/or Jehovah's Witnesses (e.g., Rolex watches).
You are being exploited. You are used.
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Why Do People Oppose Jehovah's Witnesses?
by BlackSpirit injesus christ, the son of the most high god, jehovah has this to say: "if the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.
if you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own.
now because you are no part of the world, but i have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you.
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john.prestor
Let me respond to the last "proof" you refer to Black.Spirit:
The Bible answers many difficult questions, the type of questions that when not satisfactorily answered can lead a person to atheism. For example: If God is loving and all-powerful, why is there suffering and evil in the world? Why is religion so often an influence for bad rather than for good?—Titus 1:16.
Indeed, the Bible does "answer" these questions. But that it provides answers to these questions does not prove its answers are correct. A 3rd century religion called Manichaeism similarly claimed to provide "answers" to such questions: God allows suffering in order to free imprisoned light trapped in darkness via an elaborate cosmic plan, and religion is a force for bad because the previous prophets (Jesus, the Buddha, Zoroaster) never wrote down their own teaching.
Why don't you believe in Manichaeism? It provides answers too!
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131
Why Do People Oppose Jehovah's Witnesses?
by BlackSpirit injesus christ, the son of the most high god, jehovah has this to say: "if the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.
if you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own.
now because you are no part of the world, but i have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you.
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john.prestor
I'll second that pale.emperor. God can stop by my place anytime, I'll brew us a pot of coffee.