Posts by john.prestor

16

Dutch Branch office response to the motion accepted by Parliament: "an investigation is shooting with a cannon on a mosquito"

by jochie in

today a large article was published in a dutch newspaper 'dagblad van het noorden'.

it is about frank huiting, the reclaimed voices foundation and the adopted motion in parliament.

the branch office has given a reaction:.

john.prestor

This man should be ashamed of himself. No one is saying that Jehovah's Witnesses have more child abuse than anyone else; this is either a deliberate "misunderstanding" a la Geoffrey Jackson before the ARC or it just demonstrates again that Jehovah's Witnesses think in comparative terms. But even 301 cases of whatever kind of abuse, waton, need to be investigated (and I doubt that most are statutory rape or voyeurism).

Other organizations have been willing, with or without government pressure, to reexamine their policies and practices and make major to minor adjustments. Jehovah's Witnesses unwillingness to do the same speaks volumes.

"The phase of constructive consultation has long since ended"? When did it begin?

29

Kids in my kingdom hall

by Akid48 in

i think my last post i said i went to a new congregation,i'm going to just talk about some of the shit i have seen in my congregation.. there was a kid trying to talk to a adult next to him i think it was his dad,the kid just started taping him because he wanted to tell him something and the dad gets mad then boom the kid gets elbowed.i look around to see if anyone saw him do that to his kid and nope or they didn't want to say anything about it and just like wtf.. in my old congregation,the younger kids would do random stuff in the middle of the meeting to not get board.

when the mom or dad got mad i would see then get dragged to the back of the kingdom hall and hear them start crying.when i was still mentally in i just didnt think about it at all when it would happen but when i woke up im just like thats fucked up..

john.prestor

The sad truth is this: children are a threat to the organization's attempts at control. It's kinda like Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events where the children always perceive the situation better than the adults. The kids are bored, and so are the adults, but the adults are polite enough, and yes Dunedain, career-oriented enough to stay quiet about it. The kids won't, they're bored and they express it vocally, so they have to be disciplined into silence.

27

If the Gov. where you live outlawed the JWs would you turn in your family?

by blownaway in

i guess it would depend for me.

some of my family i would take out bill boards pointing to them.

many of the elders it would be he is over there and set off a neon sign.

john.prestor

Never.

29

Kids in my kingdom hall

by Akid48 in

i think my last post i said i went to a new congregation,i'm going to just talk about some of the shit i have seen in my congregation.. there was a kid trying to talk to a adult next to him i think it was his dad,the kid just started taping him because he wanted to tell him something and the dad gets mad then boom the kid gets elbowed.i look around to see if anyone saw him do that to his kid and nope or they didn't want to say anything about it and just like wtf.. in my old congregation,the younger kids would do random stuff in the middle of the meeting to not get board.

when the mom or dad got mad i would see then get dragged to the back of the kingdom hall and hear them start crying.when i was still mentally in i just didnt think about it at all when it would happen but when i woke up im just like thats fucked up..

john.prestor

The thought occurred to me too that that shame and domination applies to the organization's expectations that children proselytize to their classmates, which inevitably does not succeed, and overtly exclude themselves from fun activities (holidays, birthdays). So then you're embarrassed and the organization offers you the only acceptance and pride you can find. But that's contingent on you submitting to them: cross them, and they'll reject you too.

Was that ever your experience, Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho? Or yours, Akid48?

29

Kids in my kingdom hall

by Akid48 in

i think my last post i said i went to a new congregation,i'm going to just talk about some of the shit i have seen in my congregation.. there was a kid trying to talk to a adult next to him i think it was his dad,the kid just started taping him because he wanted to tell him something and the dad gets mad then boom the kid gets elbowed.i look around to see if anyone saw him do that to his kid and nope or they didn't want to say anything about it and just like wtf.. in my old congregation,the younger kids would do random stuff in the middle of the meeting to not get board.

when the mom or dad got mad i would see then get dragged to the back of the kingdom hall and hear them start crying.when i was still mentally in i just didnt think about it at all when it would happen but when i woke up im just like thats fucked up..

john.prestor

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho, thanks for the mention, and I agree with you: the movement also shames and dominates its children, albeit in different ways (as you mentioned). I can't believe your father treated you like that. It just goes to show that when this organization says "family" it means "male perogative" to hurt and control. And how ridiculous to punish you for the actions of other kids!

Akid48: I wasn't raised a Witness, but I was raised in a very controlling, repressive church, and I would encourage you to distance yourself from it as much as possible, even if just mentally (critiquing what the speaker says in your head). These things shape you and influence you whether you want them to or not, and as soon as you can get out, I would strongly urge you to do so.

40

Welcoming Our Latest JW Apologist JTrottigy

by pale.emperor in

i'd like to take this opportunity to warmly welcome our newest jw apologist jtrottigy.

.

he'll likely only be here for a few days like most jw defenders before he runs away when presented with his own doctrine.. so far he's already said some hilarious stuff, like "there's no such thing as nepotism in jehovah's organisation", "confidentiality is paramount to elders" and, my personal favourite "the overlapping generation is so simple to understand".. yh don't think i don't remember you from jwtalk..

john.prestor

I suspect they need approval because they're less supervised when they cart witness, and this means that someone could more easily anti-witness or even just advocate some other form of Christianity. Unlike in field service where you're with a group, it's just two of them typically. They're more 'vulnerable' and thus the Elders need to know they can stand up to such pressures.

40

Welcoming Our Latest JW Apologist JTrottigy

by pale.emperor in

i'd like to take this opportunity to warmly welcome our newest jw apologist jtrottigy.

.

he'll likely only be here for a few days like most jw defenders before he runs away when presented with his own doctrine.. so far he's already said some hilarious stuff, like "there's no such thing as nepotism in jehovah's organisation", "confidentiality is paramount to elders" and, my personal favourite "the overlapping generation is so simple to understand".. yh don't think i don't remember you from jwtalk..

john.prestor

Welcome to the site. Here you'll find something you won't find among Jehovah's Witnesses: the freedom to doubt, to question, to debate. Unlike you guys, we don't disfellowship anybody.

32

Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

by john.prestor in

i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

-frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

john.prestor

I agree. My degree isn't in psychology though, so I don't really have the credentials to argue this, or maybe I do, I'm just somewhat hesitant to write a paper on it...

32

Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

by john.prestor in

i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

-frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

john.prestor

Exactly, mentalclarity: the idea I think, whether its conscious or subconscious, is to see whether you'll fall in line, i.e., submit to them, give them the benefit of the doubt, allow them to decide the pace, the questions, the topics.

I think a script is an excellent way to put it. Once you deviate too often from it, once you call for a break in the performance to question what's going on ("But what about the history of the performance, when did we get on stage?"), the lights go off and when they come back on again, poof, your study's gone.

Yes, part of what you get from a Bible study and from participating in the organization is a sense of being special, of superiority to others. You alone grasp, as they put it, "the sacred secrets of God."

At some point in my studies of the movement I want to demonstrate that the organizational culture is in a sense narcissistic (this is a topic regularly discussed on this forum). I cannot deny the striking parallels: the sadism, the comparative love, the sense of them being special, the lying and deception, the way they get extremely flustered and angry when you even question them, the misogyny, the superiority complex, etc.

10

Do Jehovah's Witnesses fulfill Matthew 24:14?

by jwdoctrine in

do witnesses fulfill matthew 24:14?.

(youtube video link above).

john.prestor

The story of Pentecost is a legend, nothing more. It didn't happen. I would urge you to read Alfred Loisy's "The Origins of the New Testament," which can be found online at earlychristianwritings.com, where he discusses this legend in detail.