i realize this is an older posting on jw.org, but i’d come across it again after reading holden’s thread.
quoted below, so no need to visit the website.. _______________________________________________________.
no, jehovah’s witnesses are not a cult.
Just on the scholarly side we avoid the term cult because people abused it and threw it around in the 80s and made absurd claims (I can go into it if anyone wants). But... this organization is deeply authoritarian, repressive, threatens and shames people, and creates and sustains a cult of personality about unquestionable leaders, the Governing Body
High control? Very.
https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/2018/12/13/child-sexual-abuse-suspect-arrested-t-o/2305199002/ .
a 69-year-old thousand oaks man facing multiple sexual abuse charges by the ventura county district attorney’s office was arrested last week, authorities said.. steven skyler abbott was arrested dec. 6 after months of investigation into the reported sexual abuse of two thousand oaks girls, according to the ventura county sheriff’s office.
in november, the ventura county district attorney’s office filed multiple felony sexual abuse charges against abbott, including two counts of continuous sexual abuse, one count of lewd acts upon a child and one count of forcible lewd acts upon a child.. he is also facing multiple felony enhancements and special allegations related to his charges.. the investigation began in september, when the sheriff’s agency received a report of suspected child crimes.. a 16-year-old victim alleged that she was sexually abused by abbott when she was between the ages of 5 and 11, sheriff’s officials said.. sexual assault unit detectives subsequently identified a second, 24-year-old victim who reported that abbott had abused her when she was between the ages of 3 and 7, authorities said.. the sheriff’s agency said the victims and their families had come into contact with abbott through the kingdom hall of jehovah’s witnesses in newbury park.. investigators submitted their findings to prosecutors, who filed felony sexual abuse charges against abbot on nov. 16, officials said.. on nov. 28, an arrest warrant was issued for abbott.. the suspect was eventually arrested at his home on dec. 6 and booked into ventura county jail.
I'm not religious, haven't been for years, but 'by their fruits you will know them' indeed. For a religion that abhors child sex abuse they sureas hell cover a lot of it up.
https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/2018/12/13/child-sexual-abuse-suspect-arrested-t-o/2305199002/ .
a 69-year-old thousand oaks man facing multiple sexual abuse charges by the ventura county district attorney’s office was arrested last week, authorities said.. steven skyler abbott was arrested dec. 6 after months of investigation into the reported sexual abuse of two thousand oaks girls, according to the ventura county sheriff’s office.
in november, the ventura county district attorney’s office filed multiple felony sexual abuse charges against abbott, including two counts of continuous sexual abuse, one count of lewd acts upon a child and one count of forcible lewd acts upon a child.. he is also facing multiple felony enhancements and special allegations related to his charges.. the investigation began in september, when the sheriff’s agency received a report of suspected child crimes.. a 16-year-old victim alleged that she was sexually abused by abbott when she was between the ages of 5 and 11, sheriff’s officials said.. sexual assault unit detectives subsequently identified a second, 24-year-old victim who reported that abbott had abused her when she was between the ages of 3 and 7, authorities said.. the sheriff’s agency said the victims and their families had come into contact with abbott through the kingdom hall of jehovah’s witnesses in newbury park.. investigators submitted their findings to prosecutors, who filed felony sexual abuse charges against abbot on nov. 16, officials said.. on nov. 28, an arrest warrant was issued for abbott.. the suspect was eventually arrested at his home on dec. 6 and booked into ventura county jail.
Hey Morph, we're all on the same side here, aren't we? We all want children protected. Let's see each other as allies, because we are allies.
Just antiwitnessed with this article by the way at a cart outside a bus station manned apparently by a married couple. The man said pedophilia is everywhere and there's nothing to do about it, and that Elders get asked if they're into kids before they get appointed... because a pedophile is just gonna come right out and admit that. The naivete. I was pleasant and we weren't arguing, I kept it brief.
https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/2018/12/13/child-sexual-abuse-suspect-arrested-t-o/2305199002/ .
a 69-year-old thousand oaks man facing multiple sexual abuse charges by the ventura county district attorney’s office was arrested last week, authorities said.. steven skyler abbott was arrested dec. 6 after months of investigation into the reported sexual abuse of two thousand oaks girls, according to the ventura county sheriff’s office.
in november, the ventura county district attorney’s office filed multiple felony sexual abuse charges against abbott, including two counts of continuous sexual abuse, one count of lewd acts upon a child and one count of forcible lewd acts upon a child.. he is also facing multiple felony enhancements and special allegations related to his charges.. the investigation began in september, when the sheriff’s agency received a report of suspected child crimes.. a 16-year-old victim alleged that she was sexually abused by abbott when she was between the ages of 5 and 11, sheriff’s officials said.. sexual assault unit detectives subsequently identified a second, 24-year-old victim who reported that abbott had abused her when she was between the ages of 3 and 7, authorities said.. the sheriff’s agency said the victims and their families had come into contact with abbott through the kingdom hall of jehovah’s witnesses in newbury park.. investigators submitted their findings to prosecutors, who filed felony sexual abuse charges against abbot on nov. 16, officials said.. on nov. 28, an arrest warrant was issued for abbott.. the suspect was eventually arrested at his home on dec. 6 and booked into ventura county jail.
Morph, I say this in the nicest way, but you can be a real dick sometimes. Like you have really good things to say usually, the cautionary advice is helpful, but:
But by all means keep practicing your cantankerous old man routine. Im sure it will serve you in good stead as you progress into your twilight years :)
Why would you say that? What are you trying to accomplish?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/respond-to-accusations/.
https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/2018/12/13/child-sexual-abuse-suspect-arrested-t-o/2305199002/ .
a 69-year-old thousand oaks man facing multiple sexual abuse charges by the ventura county district attorney’s office was arrested last week, authorities said.. steven skyler abbott was arrested dec. 6 after months of investigation into the reported sexual abuse of two thousand oaks girls, according to the ventura county sheriff’s office.
in november, the ventura county district attorney’s office filed multiple felony sexual abuse charges against abbott, including two counts of continuous sexual abuse, one count of lewd acts upon a child and one count of forcible lewd acts upon a child.. he is also facing multiple felony enhancements and special allegations related to his charges.. the investigation began in september, when the sheriff’s agency received a report of suspected child crimes.. a 16-year-old victim alleged that she was sexually abused by abbott when she was between the ages of 5 and 11, sheriff’s officials said.. sexual assault unit detectives subsequently identified a second, 24-year-old victim who reported that abbott had abused her when she was between the ages of 3 and 7, authorities said.. the sheriff’s agency said the victims and their families had come into contact with abbott through the kingdom hall of jehovah’s witnesses in newbury park.. investigators submitted their findings to prosecutors, who filed felony sexual abuse charges against abbot on nov. 16, officials said.. on nov. 28, an arrest warrant was issued for abbott.. the suspect was eventually arrested at his home on dec. 6 and booked into ventura county jail.
Despicable. Lock him up and throw away the key.
Also, just to chime in: Morph, you're right that that's the formal procedure established in Shepherd the Flock of God, the Elders' handbook. But I've read enough stories on this site to know that Elders don't always look for two witnesses when they learn of (supposed) premarital sex or homosexuality. It's not like that with child sex abuse: they always want two witnesses, and when there inevitably aren't (what child molester molests a child in front of someone?), they shrug their shoulders and do nothing.
as you are all aware the elders are instructed that when they come across a case of “child sexual abuse” they have to call the “legal desk” / “legal department”.
prior to 1993 this was the policy that as an elder we had.
do you know when this policy was introduced or started and what was the history behind it?.
as you are all aware the elders are instructed that when they come across a case of “child sexual abuse” they have to call the “legal desk” / “legal department”.
prior to 1993 this was the policy that as an elder we had.
do you know when this policy was introduced or started and what was the history behind it?.
Happy to help, Paul. I'm getting ready to publish (try to publish, ha) a paper that deals with child sex abuse and how the organization handles it, I'll keep you guys posted.
i didn't know where to post this but it's been on my mind and i'm looking for support and advice from people who know what it's like being shunned.
i was raised in a fundamentalist baptist church, so what i'm experiencing is a little different than most posters on this site.
i've been out of that church for years, and my brother's been out for a while too.
Thank you for saying that. It hurts because he's my brother and we used to be... affectionate, not really close, but we got along and had fun sometimes. And now that's over, and it's not coming back. But I guess that's the point isn't it? It's not coming back, and I have to come to terms with that.
This has been really helpful guys. This wasn't easy for me. The support means a lot.
of course, there are many crackpot theories about all sorts of things.
we hear about them,look into them and laugh.however, once in a great while, somebody presents a cogent and feasible thesis backed up by scholarship and history.watch this video presentation and present your rebuttal (or agreement) for discussion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqg8w7ezuq&t=268s.
No response to what I posted... again. So this is my last response.
I'm glad you quoted that passage. Early Christians did believe Jesus rose from the dead... in the spirit. Check 1 Peter for instance. Clement says the disciples were convinced. They were convinced, but why? Because of the empty tomb and a bodily resurrection? No. Because they had faith in him. You can't separate resurrection from bodily resurrection. Early Christians, however, believed, as in Hebrews, that Jesus passed immediately from the cross to heaven as a spirit when his body died. Thus the earthquakes and dead people rising in Matthew right when Jesus dies. Thus Jesus 'giving up the ghost' in Mark and John and even the Gospel of Peter
I disagree with you on the historical Jesus, and while I respect Bart Ehrman I think he's wrong on this. Go to thejesuspuzzle.com and read some of the articles, you're in for a surprise. I go for a more very minimalist position myself. For that I'd suggest Alfred Loisy, you can find his The Origins of the New Testament free at earlychristianwritings.com.
Final point: I used to believe what you do. There's a reason I don't anymore.
